New Governor General Service Medal?

[Journeyman]

But if we did that, then guys wouldn't have two medals to wear!

I actually have a set of ribbons, for wear on the short-sleeve DEU shirt, that just has the tour medals on it since they're the ones I value. It does cause discussion.

Sadly, Vern's solution to this non-required medal seems the most rational, if only because it sucks the least money out of the budget -- an aspect that some of us have to care about. It will only have to be issued to those not already having a CD, rather than striking a new medal to be awarded to pretty much everyone who's ever completed a recruit course.....or at least stuck around a PAT Platoon until qualifying.

 

[Haggis]

I actually have a set of ribbons, for wear on the short-sleeve DEU shirt, that just has the tour medals on it since they're the ones I value. It does cause discussion.

  And is quite improper.  Note the line in the previous post that details that the CD "shall be worn....".  Non discretionary, JM.  You've been awarded those orders, decorations and medals with the expectation that you shall wear them properly and completely.

So there!!! ;D

I know a well experienced Army major who steadfastly refuses to wear ANY of his medals/ribbons.  His CO pondered nominating him for an MSD but figured "why bother - he'll never wear it".

I also know a Reg F Infantry WO (at the time) who refused to wear his para wings.  Seems he never wanted to be a jumper but the unit sent him to CABC anyways.  He passed (just because that's the type of guy he is) but never put his wings up.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Maybe the problem is that we have blended 'long service' with 'good conduct' in the awards system. If we copied the RCMP protocal, we could get even more stuff to wear on our uniforms  ;D:

"The Royal Canadian Mounted Police uses stars, with 5 years of service in the RCMP per star. Stars are only worn on our Red Serge tunic or blue serge jacket (some ranks are allowed a blue serge tunic as well) centred roughly 3 - 4 inches below the shoulder on the left sleeve. After 20 years, or 4 stars, we start a second row above that, to a maximum of 40 years or 8 stars.

In addition to the stars, and if we qualify due to good behaviour, we are awarded a Long Service medal at 20 years of service in the RCMP, and are allowed to wear the undress ribbon on our uniform shirt. We are further rewarded with a bronze, silver, gold or silver and gold clasp for 25, 30, 35 and 40 years of service. The medal is worn with our serge tunics or jackets only."

http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76854

 

[Rifleman62]

Now that every conceivable criteria is murky, we can be assured that the medal will be struck, and issued following the discussed procedures. A bag full of newly minted Primary Reserve personnel, classified as senior and somewhat very senior officers and one lonely, knowledgeable, experienced, practical CWO will be hired for not less than twenty four months to action the new (fill in the blanks)                                  medal.

 

[Occam]

  And is quite improper.  Note the line in the previous post that details that the CD "shall be worn....". 

Sorry, either I need stronger glasses, or that bolded part isn't there in the post you mentioned.

 

[Haggis]

Sorry, either I need stronger glasses, or that bolded part isn't there in the post you mentioned.

That's because I bolded it.  Font notwithstanding, the operative word is "shall" which makes the wearing of a received/presented order, decoration or medal mandatory - not discretionary.

 

[Occam]

That's because I bolded it.  Font notwithstanding, the operative word is "shall" which makes the wearing of a received/presented order, decoration or medal mandatory - not discretionary.

Sorry, if you're talking about the post below, I'm not seeing "shall" anywhere...

"The Canadian Forces' Decoration is awarded to officers and Non-Commissioned Members of the Canadian Forces who have completed twelve years of service. The decoration is awarded to all ranks, who have a good record of conduct.

ELIGIBILITY & CRITERIA

The decoration is awarded to the regular forces, reserve forces, officers of the Cadet Instructors Cadre (CIC), Canadian Rangers and holders of honorary appointments in the CF. Service in the regular and reserve or auxiliary forces of the British Commonwealth of Nations will be counted towards the medal if the final five years have been served with the Canadian Forces and no other long service, good conduct or efficiency medal has been awarded for the same service. The medal may be awarded to persons in possession of any long service, good conduct or efficiency decoration or medal clasps, provided that the individual has completed the full qualifying periods of service for each award and that no service qualifying towards one award is permitted to count towards any other. The service need not be continuous. This award supersedes all other long service awards for members joining the Canadian Forces after 01 September 1939."

 

[Haggis]

Sorry, if you're talking about the post below, I'm not seeing "shall" anywhere...

Damned cut n' paste!  You're right, Occam.  I dropped that paragraph.  Read the paragraph under "Wearing" at this site.

 

[Occam]

Damned cut n' paste!  You're right, Occam.  I dropped that paragraph.  Read the paragraph under "Wearing" at this site.

Thanks, I was really thinking my eyes were going on me.

I'm not entirely sure that the statement "The Decoration shall be worn in sequence prescribed in the Canadian Orders, Decorations and Medals Directive, and in the following manner" should be interpreted to mean that the medal shall be worn at all appropriate times, only that the medal shall be worn in sequence prescribed in the Canadian Orders, Decorations and Medals Directive - which doesn't say anything about the mandatory wearing of any awarded medals.

This is also reflected in the wording of CFP-265, Chapter 4, which says:

POLICY
1. Authorized honours (orders, decorations,
medals, and the insignia for mentions-indispatches,
commendations and citations) may be
worn, when appropriate, by entitled personnel.
Where doubt exists on entitlement, the Command
concerned shall refer the matter to NDHQ/DHH for
clarification. No officer or non-commissioned
member shall carry or wear an order, decoration or
medal while engaged in operations against the
enemy.

2. Orders, decorations and medals may be
worn with ceremonial and mess dress orders. See
Chapter 2, Annex A, and Chapter 6. Guidance on
selecting honours for wear should follow the
principles in sub-sub-paragraphs 7.a.(1) and (2)
and sub-paragraph 8.a.

I've yet to see any regulation, policy or directive that makes it mandatory to wear decorations which one has been awarded.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I've yet to see any regulation, policy or directive that makes it mandatory to wear decorations which one has been awarded.

You've never been on a parade where the dress has been specified as 1A's or the boss has stated "DEU with medals"?

Both are a directive to wear your medals.

 

[Occam]

You've never been on a parade where the dress has been specified as 1A's or the boss has stated "DEU with medals"?

Both are a directive to wear your medals.

Yes, I've been on more than my fair share of them, to be honest.  Those directives are to prevent people from showing up in #3 order of dress (with undress ribbons).

I've never had anyone comparing my gongs worn on parade against my MPRR, and on a couple of occasions I've gone gongless because they've been away getting remounted.  Not once has anyone ever questioned the absence of my decorations, and much to my disappointment, no one has anyone ever said "Hold it there fella, we can't let you go on parade, you'll be out of dress".  ;D

edit:  Figure 6A-2 of CFP 265 mentions that under the 1A order of dress, "Orders, decorations, and medals may be worn".

 

[Fishbone Jones]

No matter the meaning or interpretation, as perceived by some, it's still a directive to wear them. Whether or not you've ever been checked is immaterial. If you have them and show up without them, you are out of dress (same reason they specify it, by your argument). There are certain things expected of a serviceperson, that go without saying. Honesty and integrity are a couple of them.

 

[Occam]

No matter the meaning or interpretation, as perceived by some, it's still a directive to wear them. Whether or not you've ever been checked is immaterial. If you have them and show up without them, you are out of dress (same reason they specify it, by your argument). There are certain things expected of a serviceperson, that go without saying. Honesty and integrity are a couple of them.

That's not what I said.  I said that despite my showing up for parade lacking the medals awarded to me, I have never been told that I couldn't go on parade because I would've been out of dress.

Personally, I wear my medals on all occasions which call for them.  Nevertheless, I still don't think there is anything in the regs which makes it mandatory to wear decorations which have been awarded.  Honesty and integrity have nothing to do with the issue of refusing to wear a particular medal or medals, and that's a bit of a red herring.  If it were an issue, I'm sure I would've been jacked up for being out of dress when my gongs were away getting remounted - but there was nary a query about their whereabouts.

 

[McG]

edit:  Figure 6A-2 of CFP 265 mentions that under the 1A order of dress, "Orders, decorations, and medals may be worn".

Of course, para 6 of chapter 4 states that:

The insignia of
Canadian, Commonwealth and foreign
orders, decorations and medals shall be
worn in order of precedence without
interval, with the senior closest to the
centre of the chest. See Chapter 2 to A-AD-
200-000/AG-000, The Honours, Flags and
Heritage Structure of the CF.

If one is omitting awarded medals, then they are not wearing them in the order of precedence.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I'm sure even a crusty old SSM would not be expected to know every person who had medals, or what they were. I'm also sure any 'reasonable' excuse would be accepted for not wearing them (being remounted). However, if I heard "Tommorrow's parade is in DEU with medals" I would consider it a direct order. My honesty, to myself, would say "Yes, I have them". My integrity would say "Wear them as directed". That's where I'm coming from on that.

I understand why it would be wasteful for some to wear the decorations awarded to them. They would only be covered up by the barrack room lawyer shingle that’s hanging around their neck anyway.

Not saying this about you, just saying.

Anyway, I'm not going to debate the legal meaning of 'should, will and shall'. I deal enough with that one at work.

 

[Occam]

Of course, para 6 of chapter 4 states that:If one is omitting awarded medals, then they are not wearing them in the order of precedence.

Sure they are.  The ones worn are still in the correct order of precedence.

I'm sure even a crusty old SSM would not be expected to know every person who had medals, or what they were. I'm also sure any 'reasonable' excuse would be accepted for not wearing them (being remounted). However, if I heard "Tommorrow's parade is in DEU with medals" I would consider it a direct order. My honesty, to myself, would say "Yes, I have them". My integrity would say "Wear them as directed". That's where I'm coming from on that.

Again, if it were an issue, I'm sure a crusty old SSM would be expected to inquire about a complete absence of medals on a member with over 20 years of service.

I understand why it would be wasteful for some to wear the decorations awarded to them. They would only be covered up by the barrack room lawyer shingle that’s hanging around their neck anyway.

Not saying this about you, just saying.

Others have previously indicated that they have refused (or intended to refuse) the wear of decorations (here and here, for example) and they weren't pressed on the matter.  I think it's possible that some are focusing more on the messenger than the message.

Not saying this about you, just saying.   

As I said before, I wear my decorations - all of them.  Others may not be inclined to do so for various reasons.  The regs are something less than clear on the issue.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I think it's possible that some are focusing more on the messenger than the message.

Then you think wrong. You made it quite clear that you wear yours, ergo I couldn't be speaking of you. Perhaps it's not us who is not reading clearly? ;D

Anyway, cheers

Outta here.

 

[c4th]

Simple:

- One medal, with a bar awarded for each GG you have served under.

I found a photo of the Good Idea Train

 

[Haggis]

I found a photo of the Good Idea Train

...and I think this thread was somewhere in the second boxcar from the bottom.

 

[Edward Campbell]

If we are going to award this gong IAW Haggis' excellent idea - a bar for each GG who served while the member served - then it can be awarded only at release/retirement, right? Thus serving members will never wear it and retired members can add it to their rack or not, as they see fit. Seems like a perfectly sensible idea, aside from the fact that it's a total waste of time, effort and money. I'm surprised it isn't policy already. </sarcasm>