CT / Enrollment with CIC [Merged]

[newfiegod]

That is just downright ridiculous, i am going to call the recruiting office on monday just to check on the status of my application to make sure it isn't "LOST", or something wrong to slow things down. I was told by a very reliable source that it should take between 4-6  months to go through the system which i believe to be somewhat reasonable. I am a CI/CV right now with a corp and at this point it is not what i thought it would be. I feel like a outsider in this corp, I just basically walk around overseeing the kids teach their classes or just sit in the office, thats all I do. The communication within the corp is non existent which makes it that much harder. Not sure if I am expecting too much from this but I am definately getting a little discouraged.

 

[Neill McKay]

That is just downright ridiculous, i am going to call the recruiting office on monday just to check on the status of my application to make sure it isn't "LOST", or something wrong to slow things down. I was told by a very reliable source that it should take between 4-6  months to go through the system which i believe to be somewhat reasonable.

You do have to keep on top of the recruiting centre, not to the point of harassment but definitely keep in touch with them so you know how your application is progressing.

I don't know the inner workings of the recruiting system, but the conventional wisdom is that CIC applicants are typically at the bottom of the pile in times when there is a heavy intake of regular force applicants.

I am a CI/CV right now with a corp and at this point it is not what i thought it would be. I feel like a outsider in this corp, I just basically walk around overseeing the kids teach their classes or just sit in the office, thats all I do. The communication within the corp is non existent which makes it that much harder. Not sure if I am expecting too much from this but I am definately getting a little discouraged.

You should talk to your CO (or DCO, or whichever officer you report to) about this.  It's their job to look after your welfare and address concerns like these.

 

[newfiegod]

Thank You for the input, greatly appreciated!

 

[cdn031]

I am a CI/CV right now with a corp and at this point it is not what i thought it would be. I feel like a outsider in this corp, I just basically walk around overseeing the kids teach their classes or just sit in the office, thats all I do. The communication within the corp is non existent which makes it that much harder. Not sure if I am expecting too much from this but I am definately getting a little discouraged.

Keep your chin up. Sad truth of it is that the "recruiting" system for CIC is pretty messed up at the Moment - not pointing fingers, there are some decent excuses (operational tempo etc), but the sad fact is that the current process takes far too long, is plagued with errors/delays. When I joined the CIL (later CIC) in the early 80's I had my icard in 5 weeks!
So its not "you" - its the system - BUT don't forget the turmoil because someday you might be in a position to fix it, even incrementally. It's up to all of us to not lose track of these details.
Thanks for taking the time to volunteer - In the meantime find a small topic to become expert in and teach a class or two. you'll feel better!

 

[newfiegod]

Thanks for the reply, I am going to talk to my CO later this week to discusss where exactly I fit in this corp. I would like to be more involved with the kids rather than just walking by their classes and checking in. I am going to call the recruiting office to check on my status this week as well.

 

[ryanmann356]

The CIC recruiting procvess also takes a while because the CFRC needs to bring in special adminnistrators for your interview, since working with kids they need to ask you more in depth questions so make sure you keep in touch with the CFRC so you can get an interview asap. 

 

[newfiegod]

I have been on top of the recruiting office to make sure things are going smoothly. I called the other day to check on things and they scheduled my interview and physical for April 8 so that is pretty good!!

 

[Northalbertan]

I am going thru the process myself, so far my CI paperwork has gone through all right and I have an interview in three weeks at my local CFRC.  Five months to get this far.  That is not not real bad, and I think the others are right.  CIC enlistment is at the bottom of the priority list and rightly so.  Considering the operational tempo of the CF for the past few years I'm actually rather impressed that the CIC stuff is getting done as fast as it is.  In the mean time I am a CI and able to instruct the cadets and perform Admin officer duties at my local corps.  That's the bottom line.  You should be involved in the CCO for one reason only, The Cadet.  The fact that you receive an officers rank and some excellent training along the way is a great bonus, but should not be the primary reason you are there.

Having said that I realise that being a member of the officer corps of the CF should impart a sense of responsibility on those so involved.  I know a CIC does not receive the same training nor does he have to attain the same standards (physically or knowledge based), but he should try to maintain the highest standards he can, including dress and deportment, and physical fitness.  As with anything else in the military I guess you get out of it what you put into it.

Sorry for the preaching.

 

[newfiegod]

Well I had my interview/physical and everything went great and I was accepted for enrollment so I am just waiting to get the info to start my DL. I have been a cv/ci at this corp since December 08 so things progressed in a fairly timely manner. On another note , I agree it is definately about the kids and that is why I am there. Sadly there are people with different agendas.... and officers who just sit in the office all evening long with no interaction with the kids. I interact with the kids as much as possible and you can certainly tell the difference. From what I been told the CIC over the years has started to lean towards the administration of things as opposed to the training and interaction with the cadets. I could be wrong or misled but from what I have seen personally that seems to be the case and that is where I feel I can make a difference!

 

[CICPropjock]

Well glad to hear that all went well.  Just popped by this thread and thought I'd drop in a quick line.  I was recently enrolled, after applying in October originally.  I will wholeheartedly agree and support the point that you need to be persistent with the CFRC as well as your RCSU.  I found on more than one occassion that: "Oh yes... I 'just received' you paperwork"... what a coincidence! lol  Further to that, was I the only one to end up with frustrations in the background check?  Apparently now that Backcheck is completing Backgrounds, they only ask questions which are pertinent to all applicants, and a career councellor needs to follow up with your references personally to ask the really uncomfortable questions.  I certainly have faith in the process based on the nature of the work, but I find it unfortunate; while it paints a bigger picture, that the CIC does not have more representation at the CFRC's.  Perhaps that would put more emphasis on completing the enrollment for applicants just the same as PRes/Reg applicants seem to receive, although in all fairness, they don't ride in the express lane at times either.   

At any rate, it's certainly nice to be in now.  You are absolutely right on a select portion of the CIC members.  It would seem that some get off on the uniform and the status, which is taxing and somewhat embarrassing, especially if you are someone like myself with aspirations of a Reg F career, and yet also sees the benefits of Canada's best kept secret.  I'm proud to be a new member of the CIC, and I want to keep my head high when I tell others what my role within the CF is.

REMEMBER THE CADET

 

[gwp]

The last three posts have aspects that are generalizations without foundation.

also sees the benefits of Canada's best kept secret.

When polled 97% of adults and 87% of youth know about the Cadet Organizations.  While it is true that there is not a high level of understanding about the benefits, the program is not a secret.

Sadly there are people with different agendas

Happily just like the RegF and the PRes those people are very much in the minority.

I know a [CF Reserve] CIC [Officer] does not receive the same training nor does he have to attain the same standards (physically or knowledge based)

Don't sell yourself short.  Just like all members of the CF you will receive the required training to do your job.  You will bring your own life skills and other qualifications to the the mission.  You have a duty to look after your people and keep them in good discipline (lead them) in the same manner as any other officer of the CF.

Now, just because I over reacted ... doesn't mean anyone else has to. 

 

[ComdCFRG]

Was just pointed to this discussion and the issue of priority for CIC applicants - could I explain how CIC fits into the overall series of priorities that the CFRC COs must manage.

Part of the background is that at any given moment, the COs are managing the processing for 113 Regular Force occupations, a variable number of Reserve Force occupations depending on the Reserve units in their AOR, CIC officers as well as Aboriginal entry programmes and a number of Regular Force entry programmes such as ROTP that generate their own pressures.  Many of them have their own particular wrinkles and deadlines such as a specific selection board, a specialist training course, basic qualification course or requirement to be ready for duty.  This is of course all uncoordinated so that there are always conflicting priorities that COs must manage with some guidelines from the Comd and the CFRGHQ staff.

We are not in an ideal world and have not all the personnel resources (career counsellors) or dedicated service delivery in sufficient quantity (medical screenings for example) to deal with all the priorities all the time and so these COs are juggling to try and satisfy to the best extent possible all their 'clients', the CIC Corps as much as anyone else.

When push comes to shove, all other things being equal, a CIC file will more than likely wait while other files that relate more directly to military capacity, whether Regular or Reserve Force are moved along to meet their timelines.  Rarely however are all things equal.  CIC files, like others, can get the attention they need in order to meet particular requirements of the Corps; for example they would be the only qualified officer (an overstatement, I hope, to illustrate the point).  This case needs to be made by the Corps and followed upwith the particular recruiting location, the same as is done by the Reserves for Reserve Force basic qualification course starts or priority recruiting occupations for the Regular Force occupations that I manage directly.  While a significant portion of my responsibility is for Regular Force files, I and my COs are very aware of and attentive to the pressures that operate for both the Reserve Forces and the CIC Corps and try to react accordingly with the resources they have.  I expect this of them and they operate under this guideline - they are also evaluated on the number of files RegF/ResF/CIC that they have to process and bring to closure successfully over the year, so I do have some visibility on this issue and if they are falling behind in one area I can see and then query what is happening.

This is only effective however, when the file is actually at the Recruiting Centre with the proper authority from the Corps and the necessary material from the applicant.  I noticed that in a number of the posts that the poster correctly identified this as part of the recruiting process, but may not have realised that it is not one that my COs have visibility upon nor influence over.  The time taken to get through the CIC authority is counted by laymen, and not unfairly, as 'recruiting time' however it is not CFRG generated time.

Even when my Centres have the files, several aspects are out of my control, such as the confirmation of the medical status, which is the Health Services Group, or the security status verification, which is a Deputy Provost Marshall responsibility.  Each also have their own 'dragons to slay' when it comes to meeting their full range of obligations for service delivery - we do however flag files for particular attention and they respect this however their other priorities may slow down their reaction to recruiting files generally and the priority files are affected equally.

At the present time, we are particularly busy with a great number of applicants, which is good news but particularly challenging as it is slowing down our ability to contact and then deal with any particular case, regardless of their priority.  Where there is a pressing need however, whether as a priority recruiting occupation for the Regular Force, recruits for a Reserve Force basic qualification course or a CIC officer where there is a pressing need, when it is identified by the chain of command, the CO can make an assessment of how best to meet it for the time required.  This takes active intercession early however, with regular contact for success.

Hope this provides some clarity.

MKO

 

[CICPropjock]

LCdr,

You are absolutely correct on your reply, but I was indicating that the benefits are the secret, rather than the program as a whole.  I suspect retention would be much higher if the benefits were fully understood.  As long as I've been involved, the CCM has always been refered to as Canada's best kept secret.

Colonel,

Great post!  I believe it sheds light on the even larger picture, that as an applicant can be very hard to see.  CFRC Calgary was, at the end of the day, always a pleasure to deal with, and they were always ready, willing, and able to keep me in the loop.  I think a common thought amongst members of the CIC is that the recruiting time is simply far too long for the capacity that we ultimately occupy when compared to other applicants to the CF, which is in itself not always fair to ourselves in a way.  But I think that the real explanation for that is that we're all products of a great organization, and are just eager to get back into the world of the Cadet Movement.  At any rate, you and your staff on all levels must be commended on the daunting task of recruiting, and I would also extend a huge thumbs up on the recruiting advertisements and resources put forth which I would imagine your group has contributed to.  They captivate me more than a Flames game   ...just ask my fiance...  Keep up the outstanding work! 

(Colonel, Lieutenant Commander... please pardon my lack of "Sir"/"Ma'am" in the post... I opted for the side of caution as posts are not gender specific, but I can certainly offer this )

 

[Burrows]

You are absolutely correct on your reply, but I was indicating that the benefits are the secret, rather than the program as a whole.  I suspect retention would be much higher if the benefits were fully understood.  As long as I've been involved, the CCM has always been refered to as Canada's best kept secret.

Just as it was when I was a cadet.   There is a difference between knowing they exist and knowing what to do.  If you count knowing about cadets as having seen them once outside a grocery store then your numbers aren't exactly giving you the best info.

(Colonel, Lieutenant Commander... please pardon my lack of "Sir"/"Ma'am" in the post... I opted for the side of caution as posts are not gender specific, but I can certainly offer this )

We're all informal here.  Stating rank just allows a poster to show where they're "coming from".  A Colonel is probably more qualified to answer infrastructure questions than a new Private, for example.  It doesn't mean there isn't respect - just a lack of formal address.  Every so often we get someone who comes along and demands we give them the respect they deserve because they're a Warrant Officer, etc.  We laugh at them.  We have found informality to work best here as we're all on even footing and the conversation reflects that.

 

[gun runner]

Ok, Back on target.. I have been in the system for going on a year now, my paperwork went in 25May08, and the CFRC sent me back a reply 25Nov08 that i would also require my C.F medical paperwork as I have a minor heart murmur. The Archives personnel wrote me back 21Feb09 saying that they do not have my C.F.medical docs, I would have to send to NDHQ for these. Then, 2 weeks ago, CFRC gets back to me stating that if I do not hear from the NDHQ by next week to contact them and they will arrange the medical/interview without these docs. I have been out of the forces for 17+ years and am still in fairly good shape(don't ask me to do the beep test!), I want to know what the blazes is happening with this process??? Ubique

 

[Franko]

Every so often we get someone who comes along and demands we give them the respect they deserve because they're a Warrant Officer, etc.  We laugh at them.  We have found informality to work best here as we're all on even footing and the conversation reflects that.

That and the fact that anyone can come on here and try to impersonate a rank/ position...mind you they get outed pretty fast. It is the interweb after all.

The Army.ca Staff

 

[CICPropjock]

Ok, Back on target.. I have been in the system for going on a year now, my paperwork went in 25May08, and the CFRC sent me back a reply 25Nov08 that i would also require my C.F medical paperwork as I have a minor heart murmur. The Archives personnel wrote me back 21Feb09 saying that they do not have my C.F.medical docs, I would have to send to NDHQ for these. Then, 2 weeks ago, CFRC gets back to me stating that if I do not hear from the NDHQ by next week to contact them and they will arrange the medical/interview without these docs. I have been out of the forces for 17+ years and am still in fairly good shape(don't ask me to do the beep test!), I want to know what the blazes is happening with this process??? Ubique

I think it is safe to say that any medical aspects can change the process dramatically.  A recently enrolled member I know was in the process for about the same length of time, and this is a pretty common concern for alot of applicants.  Personally, I have a medical history with some issues that are head shakers.  All of these points are completely explainable, and I no longer deal with these issues, to which I brought all documentation from specialists and my family Physician to support my application.  CFRC and the CFMG seemed to really appreciate this, and I ran into next to nothing for resistance to my application.  But recent and ongoing cardiac health concerns can be of great concern to ANY employer, not to mention the CF, and I wouldn't even know where to start when speculating on the time it would add to the process. 

Further to that, Prior service is definately another aspect, and from my understanding, the farther back they have to go, the worse it gets for pulling information. 

Stay positive, and do what I did... be nosey!  It's your application, it's about you, and you want to know!  :2c:

 

[ComdCFRG]

CICPropJock,

Glad the post hit the mark.  Thanks for the credit to my staff, they work pretty hard at trying to get everyone the service and attention they deserve, regardless of the circumstances.

Cheers, MKO

 

[gun runner]

Ok here is an update for you all.. First thanks to CICPROPJOCK for the advice, I will do just that. The contact at the CFRC told me to wait just one more week, and then contact him, I will do just that, but I am curious... how many times is he going to tell me to wait just one more week? For the rest of the summer.. or the rest of the year? I guess I have been patient this far along..I can wait the week or two, but my patience isn't limitless.My CO is on the phone to the detachment, and they are checking things on their end, but I feel it will do no good, as CFRC and detachment are two different entities. I feel that i am being put into a call waiting box and forgotten, simply because I have previously served. Ubique

 

[Neill McKay]

Sadly there are people with different agendas.... and officers who just sit in the office all evening long with no interaction with the kids. I interact with the kids as much as possible and you can certainly tell the difference. From what I been told the CIC over the years has started to lean towards the administration of things as opposed to the training and interaction with the cadets. I could be wrong or misled but from what I have seen personally that seems to be the case and that is where I feel I can make a difference!

To a certain extent, the balance between office time and classroom time for an officer is a measure of the senior cadets in the unit.  The ideal situation is for the senior cadets to be doing the overwhelming majority of the teaching and immediate supervision.  The role of officers in the cadet programme is to oversee the unit and do the administrative and planning work that can't be done by cadets.  When a unit has good senior cadets -- and enough of them -- then then officers are able to concentrate on those tasks.