The Kirpan court decision

[SHELLDRAKE!!]

In order to avoid senseless comments I would ask that readers become informed on the Kirpan at http://www.sikhs.ca/kirpan/ before commenting. I would like to know what the opinion of others is on this subject and weather or not you think Canadian society will benefit or be hurt by religiouse practices being incorporated into Canadian schools etc.

 

[Bobbyoreo]

I've been upto date with the court hearings in the paper and just dont think its a smart idea to have a weapon no matter what it means to that person or the faith in a school.

 

[Guy. E]

I recall a subject on this on TV a wile back. I believe it was the CBC.

The solution to the matter at the time was to have a "Kirpan" in a leather? sheath sewn together. So the person who wares it cannot access it to use it as a weapon.

I am infact listening to this on CBC Radio 1 RIGHT NOW.

You don't like weapons in school? how do you feel about scissors and pens? both of those can be used as weapons just as effectively as a kirpan.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

I've been upto date with the court hearings in the paper and just dont think its a smart idea to have a weapon no matter what it means to that person or the faith in a school.

Were you also aware that the kirpans in many cases were purely ceremonial?  I say keep them.  A high school student playing bagpipes at a school function would wear a sgian dugh - why would it be ok for him, but not a Sikh?  besides which, why not introduce students to the cultures of other people - sounds like a great conversation piece other than the usual "hey look at the dude with the towel on his head."

 

[SHELLDRAKE!!]

I am in no way insinuating that a person has ever or would ever used the Kirpan for violence but whats to stop another student from taking it away. In my opinion if the Kirpan was never in the school to begin with, the possibility would not exist.

Although Canada is the result of many different cultures living together, I believe we as Canadians need to set some distinctly Canadian guidelines. After all, whats practiced in another country, doesn't always work in Canada.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

I am in no way insinuating that a person has ever or would ever used the Kirpan for violence but whats to stop another student from taking it away. In my opinion if the Kirpan was never in the school to begin with, the possibility would not exist.

Although Canada is the result of many different cultures living together, I believe we as Canadians need to set some distinctly Canadian guidelines. After all, whats practiced in another country, doesn't always work in Canada.

What's to stop

a) a kid from using a ballpoint pen as a murder weapon
b) a kid from stealling someone's lunch money

In other words, using "what if it is stolen" as an argument for not allowing them is very weak.

At last year's Stampede display, I was told not to wear the bayonet on my tac vest because "someone might steal it."

 

[Bobbyoreo]

Hey sorry if you disagree with me. I just don't think we should in anyways let a kid bring a knife into a school no matter what it is wrapped in. Knifes are weapons (yes I know of the ceremonial meaning) scissors and pens are not meant to be weapons. Knifes are. I got nothing again these people or their beliefs so please don't take it that way.

 

[dapaterson]

A high school student playing bagpipes at a school function would wear a sgian dugh

Some would argue that the offensive action is in playing the bagpipes...  

 

[Guy. E]

The point is that these are not meant to be weapons just as scissors are not meant to be weapons, the kirpans are a symbol of the Seek (sp) faith.

 

[SHELLDRAKE!!]

Your typical Canadian student will look at a Kirpan as a weapon simply because they are ignorant to its true meaning.

What I am suggesting is that as Canadians, we need to draw the line somewhere. I recall a lady in Toronto (I think) who went to court because she couldn't get her drivers liscence photo taken while wearing a burkha.

Just as we as Canadians don't openly eat or drink during ramadan when in Afghanistan, I believe our rules and values should be respected here in Canada.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Your typical Canadian student will look at a Kirpan as a weapon simply because they are ignorant to its true meaning.

And your cunning plan to educate them is to keep them hidden at home?

 

[Guy. E]

Then specifically, what is "Canada"?


I can only see them doing this because the seek religion is a minority in Canada. They sure as hell aren't doing this in India.


UPDATE: Supreme Courts say it is legal to have a Kirpan at school.

 

[Cloud Cover]

And your cunning plan to educate them is to keep them hidden at home?

The plan is to issue every child a Kirpan until some kid brings said Kirpan to a gun fight outside of shop class. In order to deal with the problem, shop class and guns will be banned from public schools.  

 

[SHELLDRAKE!!]

And your cunning plan to educate them is to keep them hidden at home?

Yes it is. Its my opinion that the average junior high/high schooler doesn't have the maturity to understand cultural differences and the likelyhood of an incident occuring is great.

With a country like Canada, we can't honestly say that every culture of the world will get along peacefully by bringing all their customs and traditions into one society. Being born in Canada I grew up understanding that certain laws were put in place for my own safety. Why then should someone moving to Canada be entitled to change the laws because thats what they did in their country of origin?

 

[The Anti-Royal]

It may be argued that the likelihood of an incident occurring is not great.  Sikhs have been in Canada for well over one hundred years and a kirpan, to my knowledge, has never been used as a weapon in a school setting.  It is a symbol of faith, and its use as a weapon runs counter to that faith.

 

[SHELLDRAKE!!]

I agree, the likelyhood of violence from the carrier of the Kirpan is not great but its the ignorance of others that may become the problem.

Wouldn't it just be easier to say "In Canada, no guns or bladed instruments of any sort are allowed in schools."

In my opinion, if you move to Canada you should follow the rules of society. Maybee there will never be an incident involving a Kirpan but what will we have achieved as Canadians if there is?

 

[Gayson]

Just let them use a Kirpan that is not sharp, thus making it no more lethal than a pen.

 

[DSB]

Some thoughts:

I wore a kirpan in school and  when I first joined the CF, (I took it off a few years after my JNCO because I was no longer following the Sikh Rehat….code of conduct).   Hopefully soon I will be in the right mind set to become an amritdhari Sikh again.

I’m also a teacher in a middle school in Peel.  We have several students who wear kirpans.  Everyone knows this, and no one, (staff, student, parent), has questioned the policy; at least where I work.  The students don’t flash them or even discuss them.

Amritdhari Sikhs, (‘devout’ Sikhs…the ones with the 5 K’s), will only bow to two things in life: the Guru Granth Sahib, (Sikh Scripture), and Shastar, (‘weapons’).  Both can help humanity fight oppression and injustice. 

Amritdhari Sikhs do not treat kirpans like tools.  They are revered and respected.  If someone is putting them on they will know this.

DSB

 

[DSB]

Just let them use a Kirpan that is not sharp, thus making it no more lethal than a pen.

This is what people do.  I don't know anyone who lets their kids run around with sharp knives.

DSB

 

[Pte_Martin]

I agree, the likelyhood of violence from the carrier of the Kirpan is not great but its the ignorance of others that may become the problem.

Wouldn't it just be easier to say "In Canada, no guns or bladed instruments of any sort are allowed in schools."

In my opinion, if you move to Canada you should follow the rules of society. Maybee there will never be an incident involving a Kirpan but what will we have achieved as Canadians if there is?

I agree with your point! Follow our rules, if you don't like them why did you move here in the first place?