Liberal Minority Government 2021 - ????

[Remius]

Or people are flocking to him because he calls out the failings of the current government, promotes new economic ideas and is willing to ditch failures. He is not offering more failure on top of failure.

No doubt he has momentum. If the polls are accurate he is making gains and is ahead. I have yet to see any substance to that. Crypto currency, firing some bureaucrats and stating he will build pipelines everywhere is all nice but I have yet to see a full plan. He still has time. But he saying what people want to hear.

He is in the OPPOSITION. They are supposed to be on the government. ALL the time. Its actually good to have this. Its supposed to keep governments accountable. It would work in this case if Jagmeet didn't sell his soul.

Yes. But at some point he needs to demonstrate he can govern or actually wants to. That’s the issue with with protest parties. They need to offer actual alternatives. Again he still has time to flesh that out. As I said campaigns matter.

The comment is really stupid.

This is just disappointing.

Just about everything he says and critiques on is very much true or issues that are concerning and need addressing. Trudeau and his crowd like to do something, it flops big time and then they circle the wagons and defend their decision at all cost. Good thing they don't fly planes, as the plane is crashing to the earth they would be arguing that they did take off procedures perfectly and no one should question them.

Agreed. He’s hitting the right chord with a lot of people. Not sure it will be enough or at least at this time it might not be.

Trudeau, Singh and the "woke" crowd like to use big nasty descriptions of him (or any political leader) to distract and try to confuse Canadians. The tactic has long gone stale.

Sure but the issue is that his own party gives them that opportunity. The whole Anderson thing while not a disaster put PP on the defensive and into reaction mode. Then just when it might go away Lewis had to tweet about it this week keeping it in the news cycle. The CPC can’t afford that sort of stuff.

So, he is unifying not polarizing.

He has a polarizing past whether you like it or not. His detractors will use that to define him. So when RangerRay says to not underestimate the ABC crowd’s use of that then yes it has merit.

 

[YZT580]

So regarding this election interference scandal, what can be done about it?

very little until Singh pulls his support. any correspondence or reports will be so heavily reacted as to be unreadable, the judge will be cherry-picked to ensure his credentials read liberal and the committee itself will be liberal top-heavy. The best thing for the conservatives is to save all examples of foot in mouth for use when the writ is finally dropped. Then pray

 

[Remius]

So regarding this election interference scandal, what can be done about it?

One riding is too many in my book. There is a parliamentary committee looking into it and despite all sides agreeing that the actual outcome of the election was not affected, the partisan nature of it doesn’t give me any reason to think any real solution will come of anything. I’ll wait and see what they conclude or say.

An inquiry would be the way I would go. Identify what went wrong and fix it.

One issue is I think this was “no big deal” thought on the PM’s part and that it wasn’t a big deal, call it hubris, willful ignorance or miscalculation or whatever. I think it is a big deal and needs to be dealt with for everyone’s sake.

Another issue is that PP was the architect of the fair elections act and that act would have seen the limits on the Chief Electoral Officer ability to investigate things like that. Given his likelihood of shrinking government and “gate keepers”. I doubt he’ll take any action.

I think we should have a more robust set of powers for his office to investigate and if possible enforce election laws with applicable punishment. I somehow don’t think either party will do that though.

 

[brihard]

An inquiry may allow for comparing the fact set, the les as they exist, the enforcement mechanisms for same, and any gaps we may, as a country find between when is prohibited and enforceable, and what we want to be. There may have been things done that are contrary to our national interest yet aren’t against any current law. Personally I could see value in a process that would determine that. There may be overlap between intelligence functions, electoral law investigation and enforcement and national security law investigation and enforcement that requires some work to define and deconflict.

 

[ArmyRick]

I have not seen any evidence outside the partisan ecosystem that he is a uniter. We are dealing with two extremely polarizing figures in Pollievre and Trudeau. Add to that a weak NDP. The Tories win when the NDP is strong. I can’t see all those ABC NDP voters who voted for Trudeau in 2015 going for Pollievre. If you think they will, you will have to show your work beyond anecdotes and feelings.

Also, the Liberals have the CCP on their side.

Proof? How about a record number of people voting in the conservative leadership last fall, he skipped one of the debates and won by a landslide.

Your trying to peg PP into the same slot that many have tried with Scheer and O'Toole. No offence, your bias sticks out big time. Or you need someone "so perfect" to lead that he/she simply doesn't exist.

 

[ArmyRick]

No doubt he has momentum. If the polls are accurate he is making gains and is ahead. I have yet to see any substance to that. Crypto currency, firing some bureaucrats and stating he will build pipelines everywhere is all nice but I have yet to see a full plan. He still has time. But he saying what people want to hear.

Yes. But at some point he needs to demonstrate he can govern or actually wants to. That’s the issue with with protest parties. They need to offer actual alternatives. Again he still has time to flesh that out. As I said campaigns matter.

This is just disappointing.

Agreed. He’s hitting the right chord with a lot of people. Not sure it will be enough or at least at this time it might not be.

Sure but the issue is that his own party gives them that opportunity. The whole Anderson thing while not a disaster put PP on the defensive and into reaction mode. Then just when it might go away Lewis had to tweet about it this week keeping it in the news cycle. The CPC can’t afford that sort of stuff.

He has a polarizing past whether you like it or not. His detractors will use that to define him. So when RangerRay says to not underestimate the ABC crowd’s use of that then yes it has merit.

I say this time and time again. I look at the "Wynne" effect here in Ontario and believe it can happen federally. Your too busy trying to "calculate" the odds he will lose to Trudeau.

There are way too many X factors you haven't factored in. I look at it as Canadians get tired of seeing a contraversial leader all the time making poor news, they get tired of hearing about big government payouts to corporations and government employess while they desperately try to balance their bank books and weirdly enough, Canadians just plain old get tired of seeing the same face (in this case Trudeau).

The Anderson thing hasn't been as big deal especially when alternate news soruces are pointing out that it was Warren Kinsella who probably mislead the CPC about Anderson being a "racist" (Pierre could have a scape goat). But then again, not really an issue. Following the chats on pro CPC forums and the like, many people are just like "who cares if Pierre did/did not call this out..." My guess? The Trudeau/Singh crowd will cling desperately to the Anderson story for dear life but Canadians all around are probably going to treat it like a nothing burger.

 

[TacticalTea]

Your trying to peg PP into the same slot that many have tried with Scheer and O'Toole

???

I never heard anyone say either of these guys were divisive or polarizing. In fact, people said the exact opposite of ''bland, milquetoast'' Scheer. O'Toole, anyone would have a beer with.

So when you then go on to say:

No offence, your bias sticks out big time

I can't hide that I'm quite baffled.

Though you may disagree with them, @Remius' and @RangerRay's analyses are even-keeled. Your defense of PP comes off as partisan.

I say that as a likely CPC voter for next election.

 

[ArmyRick]

???

I never heard anyone say either of these guys were divisive or polarizing. In fact, people said the exact opposite of ''bland, milquetoast'' Scheer. O'Toole, anyone would have a beer with.

So when you then go on to say:

I can't hide that I'm quite baffled.

Though you may disagree with them, @Remius' and @RangerRay's analyses are even-keeled. Your defense of PP comes off as partisan.

I say that as a likely CPC voter for next election.

If PP gets elected as PM in the next election, and then blows it, I will drop his arse faster than a dead weight. If my MP who I currently support and is CPC (Alex Ruff) blows it, I will drop my support for him FAST (and he is a friend and a customer, and a former officer). At this point, I believe he deserves the chance to succeed or fail.

When it comes to politics, I am loyal to the one with the most integrity, accountability and transparency. Puts Canadians and facts above the world and misguided idelogy.

I voted for Harpers CPC in 2006, and for a few reasons, I never voted for his brand of CPC again.

I am tired of things like Pierre makes a tiny mistake and people demonize the shit out of him. The Trudeau paid for media doesn't help. Trudeau, well hell, look at his long ass list of misdeeds and grievious sins, but it seems like many people are like "oh well, ho hum, what can you do?"

I participate in the democratic political process, many here partake in partisan ideology.

 

[Remius]

If PP gets elected as PM in the next election, and then blows it, I will drop his arse faster than a dead weight. If my MP who I currently support and is CPC (Alex Ruff) blows it, I will drop my support for him FAST (and he is a friend and a customer, and a former officer). At this point, I believe he deserves the chance to succeed or fail.

That’s fair. I just have yet to see anything from PP that would make me vote FOR him. The LPC certainly has a lot to look at in terms of voting AGAINST them. So I get your angle. PP is my MP. I’ve seen him campaign and met him twice. I’ll leave it at that for now. I will be interested in seeing the full platform when it comes out. But a lot gives me pause.

When it comes to politics, I am loyal to the one with the most integrity, accountability and transparency. Puts Canadians and facts above the world and misguided idelogy.

I voted for Harpers CPC in 2006, and for a few reasons, I never voted for his brand of CPC again.

I am tired of things like Pierre makes a tiny mistake and people demonize the shit out of him. The Trudeau paid for media doesn't help. Trudeau, well hell, look at his long ass list of misdeeds and grievious sins, but it seems like many people are like "oh well, ho hum, what can you do?"

Somewhat hyperbolic but yes and that is my point. It only takes a few of his MPs to screw up and he is on the defensive. Exactly because he has a history of polarization. When Cheryl Gallant opened her mouth to speak, Harper had to go into damage control mode. The same issue will be a challenge for PP. the moment an MP of his talks about anything like say abortion, he will will be on the defensive as a result.

I participate in the democratic political process, many here partake in partisan ideology.

I’m not sure if you are directing that at me but if you are you couldn’t be more wrong.

 

[IKnowNothing]

I will be interested in seeing the full platform when it comes out. But a lot gives me pause.

The thing I'm scared of is that there won't be one.

 

[ArmyRick]

That’s fair. I just have yet to see anything from PP that would make me vote FOR him. The LPC certainly has a lot to look at in terms of voting AGAINST them. So I get your angle. PP is my MP. I’ve seen him campaign and met him twice. I’ll leave it at that for now. I will be interested in seeing the full platform when it comes out. But a lot gives me pause.

Somewhat hyperbolic but yes and that is my point. It only takes a few of his MPs to screw up and he is on the defensive. Exactly because he has a history of polarization. When Cheryl Gallant opened her mouth to speak, Harper had to go into damage control mode. The same issue will be a challenge for PP. the moment an MP of his talks about anything like say abortion, he will will be on the defensive as a result.

I’m not sure if you are directing that at me but if you are you couldn’t be more wrong.

Its AIMED at everyone. I talk about this to family, friends, current army guys, ex-army guys, clubs, etc. Everyone in this country needs to have a solid look in the mirror as to how they vote. The fact that Trudeau is still PM, tells me it isn't happening.

 

[RangerRay]

Proof? How about a record number of people voting in the conservative leadership last fall, he skipped one of the debates and won by a landslide.

Your trying to peg PP into the same slot that many have tried with Scheer and O'Toole. No offence, your bias sticks out big time. Or you need someone "so perfect" to lead that he/she simply doesn't exist.

All the leadership numbers tell me is he got a bunch of people juiced to vote for him as leader. Is it enough to win a national campaign with the vast majority normies who didn’t vote in the leadership? We’ll see.

He was doing a good job sticking to bread and butter issues. We will see how he deals with bozo eruptions from his caucus. I am pretty sure Harper would have bounced them a long time ago. He sure as hell wouldn’t have put up with Lewis’ defiance.

You also say

Following the chats on pro CPC forums and the like, many people are just like "who cares if Pierre did/did not call this out..."

No offence, but you’re drinking your own bath water. That’s why parties rate behind Ebola in terms of popularity now. Partisans believe their own press and now hang out in their own curated ecosystems where they get their biases confirmed. Then when things don’t work out, they blame the media, the elites, the “deep state”, the WEF, the Jews, etc.

Do you know what I am biased for? Someone defeating Trudeau in such a way that all his Tru-Anon cultists have the scales fall from their eyes, and send him into obscurity.

 

[ArmyRick]

The thing I'm scare of is that there won't be one.

Or you could go the Trudeau route, promise a bunch of things, then once elected back peddle on near every one of them and do shit totally not even mentioned during your campaign.

 

[ArmyRick]

All the leadership numbers tell me is he got a bunch of people juiced to vote for him as leader. Is it enough to win a national campaign with the vast majority normies who didn’t vote in the leadership? We’ll see.

He was doing a good job sticking to bread and butter issues. We will see how he deals with bozo eruptions from his caucus. I am pretty sure Harper would have bounced them a long time ago. He sure as hell wouldn’t have put up with Lewis’ defiance.

You also say



No offence, but you’re drinking your own bath water. That’s why parties rate behind Ebola in terms of popularity now. Partisans believe their own press and now hang out in their own curated ecosystems where they get their biases confirmed. Then when things don’t work out, they blame the media, the elites, the “deep state”, the WEF, the Jews, etc.

Do you know what I am biased for? Someone defeating Trudeau in such a way that all his Tru-Anon cultists have the scales fall from their eyes, and send him into obscurity.

No. Your looking for such a perfect leader that Jesus Christ himself wouldn't meet your standards.

 

[IKnowNothing]

Or you could go the Trudeau route, promise a bunch of things, then once elected back peddle on near every one of them and do shit totally not even mentioned during your campaign.

I have never voted for JT, a trend that is likely to continue unless they run a candidate that tops Alex's very high bar as a riding representative.

That being said- PP's continued lack of cogent platform is not selling his ability to run the country. JT betrayed the countries trust and needs to go. But that doesn't mean that PP shouldn't be trying to earn trust in his own ability.

I can't speak for Remius or RangerRay, but O'Toole, McKay, and Charest would all meet my standards for a CPC leader that I would support for PM rather than voting my riding.

 

[QV]

One riding is too many in my book. There is a parliamentary committee looking into it and despite all sides agreeing that the actual outcome of the election was not affected, the partisan nature of it doesn’t give me any reason to think any real solution will come of anything. I’ll wait and see what they conclude or say.

An inquiry would be the way I would go. Identify what went wrong and fix it.

One issue is I think this was “no big deal” thought on the PM’s part and that it wasn’t a big deal, call it hubris, willful ignorance or miscalculation or whatever. I think it is a big deal and needs to be dealt with for everyone’s sake.

Another issue is that PP was the architect of the fair elections act and that act would have seen the limits on the Chief Electoral Officer ability to investigate things like that. Given his likelihood of shrinking government and “gate keepers”. I doubt he’ll take any action.

I think we should have a more robust set of powers for his office to investigate and if possible enforce election laws with applicable punishment. I somehow don’t think either party will do that though.

I don't believe for a second that all the election meddling resulted in a Nil Return. In fact if the parliamentary committee says 'X" I'd be more inclined to believe "Y". I'm guessing CSIS leaked this because the interference had tangible results and the beneficiary is happy to oblige.

There is only one way to restore the integrity here. There needs to be an investigation by a task force of CSIS, RCMP, and Prov/Muni investigators, overseen by a public body and none involved can be intimately connected to the LPC, like Rouleau or Rosenburg, followed by a full public report and prosecutions where warranted.

So long as this hangs over the nation unanswered the last two elections are and any future election is tainted.

 

[Remius]

I don't believe for a second that all the election meddling resulted in a Nil Return. In fact if the parliamentary committee says 'X" I'd be more inclined to believe "Y". I'm guessing CSIS leaked this because the interference had tangible results and the beneficiary is happy to oblige.

Yet the opposition (ie the CPC) agreed on that fact. The outcome was not in doubt or affected.

The issue I believe, is that the PMO knew about it yet did nothing and took little to no action. That is concerning.

There is only one way to restore the integrity here. There needs to be an investigation by a task force of CSIS, RCMP, and Prov/Muni investigators, overseen by a public body and none involved can be intimately connected to the LPC, like Rouleau or Rosenburg, followed by a full public report and prosecutions where warranted.

Not sure that falls into any of those organisations mandates. But I do think it needs more than just a parliamentary committee study. No one criticized Rouleau’s decision (including PP). So not sure why he or Rosenburg are being mentioned. Remind me if you will who Rosenburg is? (I’m not familiar or the name escapes me)

So long as this hangs over the nation unanswered the last two elections are and any future election is tainted.

I suppose that might be or already is the case for some who don’t accept election results that don’t go their way.

But yes, it needs dealing with as it will be used by plenty of people to discredit any election and I agree that it is a threat to the integrity of our electoral system.

 

[Jarnhamar]

The Prime Minister has said the outcomes of the elections were not affected. Mr. Trudeau told reporters Monday that Morris Rosenberg, a former head of the Trudeau Foundation, had been selected in summer 2022 to write an independent report that will assess the effectiveness of a government panel that monitored the 2021 election for foreign threats. The Privy Council said in a statement that the report is complete and will soon be released.

The Conservative Party immediately raised concerns about Mr. Rosenberg’s involvement, which was not widely known before this week, and referenced the $200,000 donation to the foundation by Mr. Zhang.

Mr. Rosenberg, a former deputy minister of foreign affairs, was chief executive of the Trudeau Foundation between 2014 and 2018. He was “involved in facilitating a controversial $200,000 donation from influential CCP official Bin Zhang, who was also intimately involved in Trudeau’s 2016 billionaire cash-for-access scandal,” the Conservatives said in a Monday news release. That scandal revolved around private fundraisers the government held with wealthy donors, who were given opportunities to meet with Mr. Trudeau and other senior ministers.

So former head of the Trudeau Foundation who was with the foundation during the controversial $200,000 donation, was selected in 2022 to write an independent report that will assess the effectiveness of a government panel that monitored the 2021 election for foreign threats.

No conflicts of interest there.

 

[Furniture]

So former head of the Trudeau Foundation who was with the foundation during the controversial $200,000 donation, was selected in 2022 to write an independent report that will assess the effectiveness of a government panel that monitored the 2021 election for foreign threats.

No conflicts of interest there.

Nice bank accounts you have there, would be a shame if anything happened to them...

 

[RangerRay]

So not sure why he or Rosenburg are being mentioned. Remind me if you will who Rosenburg is? (I’m not familiar or the name escapes me)

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