Hybrid Electric Vehicles

[Furniture]

Unfortunately by the time they put dual air bags, ABS, our crash protection standards and all the government required spyware/engine kill/drunk driving sensors/tire pressure sensors/back up camera etc the truck would cost $40,000 CDN or more. I would love it if they would build a truck like my Grandfather ordered new in 1970. He bought a F-100 Custom, manual windows, locks and steering, 302 with a 4 speed manual and front disc brakes. That truck served him well and though badly rusted out now is still used on the family farm to this day. Sadly there isn't any profit margin in that and the government wouldn't like the lack of add ons they demand on new vehicle which is part of what drives the price through the roof.

All those addons make vehicles far safer than ever before, and as a result there are less people dying every year in car crashes, despite there being far more vehicles on the road. Even since 2002 the numbers have improved quite a bit.

Canadian Motor Vehicle Traffic Collision Statistics: 2021

Canadian Motor Vehicle Traffic Collision Statistics: 2021

tc.canada.ca

 

[KJK]

All those addons make vehicles far safer than ever before, and as a result there are less people dying every year in car crashes, despite there being far more vehicles on the road. Even since 2002 the numbers have improved quite a bit.

Canadian Motor Vehicle Traffic Collision Statistics: 2021

Canadian Motor Vehicle Traffic Collision Statistics: 2021

tc.canada.ca

If you can't afford a new/er vehicle then you don't get any of those safety features which I believe was the point Colin was trying to make. I'm not sure where you live but in SK/MB/Northern BC I still see lots of 80/90s vehicles driving around because people either can't afford to replace them or believe, likely correctly, that newer vehicles are far more complicated and expensive to fix.

 

[Furniture]

If you can't afford a new/er vehicle then you don't get any of those safety features which I believe was the point Colin was trying to make. I'm not sure where you live but in SK/MB/Northern BC I still see lots of 80/90s vehicles driving around because people either can't afford to replace them or believe, likely correctly, that newer vehicles are far more complicated and expensive to fix.

I was simply pointing out that the "spyware" and other stuff is there for a reason. The government doesn't mandate airbags, seatbelts, stability control, etc., just to make cars more expensive and complicated.

Car companies don't have to charge as much as the currently do for cars that meet the safety standards, they charge as much as they do because up until about 9 months ago they couldn't keep cars on the lots. They got greedy, and now they are starting to face the problem of having too many vehicles on lots, because people can't afford the new prices with the current interest rates.

I also suspect most of the saving of driving an older vehicle is in having a local guy who can fit it with junkyard parts. If you live somewhere that the junkyards are picked over, or your local guy is too busy/charges too much, an 00s-10s car is likely cheaper to run.

 

[RangerRay]

The issue we found last year was that while I wanted to get an inexpensive ICE car that was only a few years old, they were only slightly less expensive with a much higher loan rate than financing a new car of the same model through the dealer. It didn’t make financial sense to buy a used car that you couldn’t pay cash for.

I don’t know if the market has improved since then but I don’t think it has.

 

[KJK]

The issue we found last year was that while I wanted to get an inexpensive ICE car that was only a few years old, they were only slightly less expensive with a much higher loan rate than financing a new car of the same model through the dealer. It didn’t make financial sense to buy a used car that you couldn’t pay cash for.

I don’t know if the market has improved since then but I don’t think it has.

My Brother in law was shopping for a new vehicle last fall and found the thing. He ended up buying new. There were lots of electric cars sitting on the lots but he works out of town a lot so that wasn't a viable option.

 

[Kirkhill]

I was simply pointing out that the "spyware" and other stuff is there for a reason. The government doesn't mandate airbags, seatbelts, stability control, etc., just to make cars more expensive and complicated.

Car companies don't have to charge as much as the currently do for cars that meet the safety standards, they charge as much as they do because up until about 9 months ago they couldn't keep cars on the lots. They got greedy, and now they are starting to face the problem of having too many vehicles on lots, because people can't afford the new prices with the current interest rates.

I also suspect most of the saving of driving an older vehicle is in having a local guy who can fit it with junkyard parts. If you live somewhere that the junkyards are picked over, or your local guy is too busy/charges too much, an 00s-10s car is likely cheaper to run.

It is all done with the best of intentions. Just as with houses and the Canadian Building Code.

And they save lives.

If you can't afford to buy a car then you are less likely to die in a car.

But what is lost when people can't afford their own vehicle? Their own house?

Some place between here and there there is a point of balance.

 

[daftandbarmy]

EVs... the modern bread maker?

Are Electric Cars a Dead End?​

Although electric vehicles have been promoted by presidents, governors, tax authorities, and tech wizards, sales trends indicate that the American public isn’t listening. Neither policy inducements nor price cuts have been sufficient to overcome the hurdles of physics, consumer inertia, and an unreliable electrical grid.

SAN DIEGO – In the early 1990s, every self-respecting American yuppie and retired suburban couple bought an electric bread maker, with sales hitting four million units. But the fad soon faded as these amateur bakers discovered that stuffing a precise quantity and ratio of flour, eggs, butter, yeast, and salt into a metal box takes time and costs much more than strolling to the corner bakery. Are plug-in electric vehicles (EVs) the bread makers of our day?

Are Electric Cars a Dead End? | by Todd G. Buchholz - Project Syndicate

Todd G. Buchholz explains why consumers remain wary of the technology despite all the policies designed to boost adoption.

www.project-syndicate.org

 

[Fishbone Jones]

 

[Fishbone Jones]

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Meanwhile hybrid ferries....

 

[Kirkhill]

grand, state-led industrial strategies never work

France’s President Macron had a plan to make millions of electric vehicles a year. Chancellor Scholz planned to put 15 million on Germany’s roads by 2030. President Biden trumped the lot with a $174bn (£138bn) plan to make the US the world leader. Even Boris Johnson – remember him – had a £1bn plan to beef up our charging network.

Rewind only a couple of years, and almost every president or prime minister was making electric vehicles the cornerstone of an industrial strategy. And yet, this week we have learned that Renault is abandoning plans to separately list its electric vehicle (EV) and software business, while Volvo is winding down its Polestar electric sports car subsidiary.

In reality, amid an onslaught of Chinese competition, and falling sales, the West’s electric vehicle dream is quickly unravelling – and we need to relearn all the lessons in why grand, state-led industrial strategies never work.

It was not so long ago that countries were competing furiously to launch battery-powered visions of the future. With Tesla riding the wave of green demand to become the world’s largest car manufacturer, measured by market value if not volume, and with ambitious net zero targets to meet, they all wanted to make sure they could compete in electric vehicles.

We would reduce carbon emissions, create many jobs, and shore up our industrial base. Sure, governments would have to commit a few billions – or tens of billions – to make it happen. But it would pay for itself many times over.
And yet, right now, plans for an EV-led industrial revolution are in full-scale retreat.

Renault, despite the programme of state support, has this week scrapped the separate listing of its EV unit Ampere, which has been scheduled for the first half of the year. It was a “pragmatic decision” according to the company’s chief executive Luca de Meo, arguing that falling sales for EVs across Europe meant the market was more challenging than forecast.

Likewise, Volvo announced that it would stop funding its EV unit, Polestar, and might even offload its 48pc stake on other shareholders, including China’s Geely. Last September, Volkswagen said it was cutting production of two of its flagship EV models, while in November, Ford said it was scaling back its battery plant in Michigan.

It looks like all those “well-paid green jobs” are going to take a little longer to arrive than anyone anticipated. As for the payback on huge sums various governments have “invested” in the industry, it looks like the returns on that money will take a while to come through as well.
There is nothing wrong with EVs themselves. They are often great as run-arounds for dense urban environments, and as long as the raw materials are sourced correctly, and the chargers are not powered by coal-burning generators, they are probably a little better for the environment than the petrol version.

If people want them, then that’s great. The trouble with the industry right now is that demand is falling because the vehicles cost far more than anyone expected, and what market there is will be captured by Chinese manufacturers such as BYD that can make vehicles far more cheaply than anyone in the West can. The result? A lot of government money will be wasted.

The West’s humiliating electric car climbdown has begun

Ambitious plans for an electrification-led industrial revolution are in full-scale retreat

www.telegraph.co.uk

Oi dunno. Seemed like a good idear at the toime.

No one really has any idea what products people might want in five or ten years time, which is why it is best to leave it to private companies and their investors to make their own bets, reap the rewards when they get it right, and bear the losses when they don’t.

 

[OldSolduer]

Years ago I said that solar and wind power are not dependable or feasible sources of generating electricity. BUT "experts" poo poo'd us serfs and peasants and told us what was good for us. Well F*CK YOU "experts" and the horses you rode in on. Oh but horses fart so I guess the "experts" should f*cking walk.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

grand, state-led industrial strategies never work

The West’s humiliating electric car climbdown has begun

Ambitious plans for an electrification-led industrial revolution are in full-scale retreat

www.telegraph.co.uk

Oi dunno. Seemed like a good idear at the toime.

W.A.C. Bennett wants a word with you.

 

[YZT580]

do we write of the 25B we have invested in battery plants? Seems like with local manufacturers backing down the lion's share of production will go to the far east and I can't see shipping batteries from here to supply them?

 

[Kirkhill]

do we write of the 25B we have invested in battery plants? Seems like with local manufacturers backing down the lion's share of production will go to the far east and I can't see shipping batteries from here to supply them?

This is Canada. How much of that 25 BCAD has been spent vice how much has been promised? The people that promised that money are the same people that promised a working fleet of frigates for the navy.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/canadas-support-ev-battery-plants-cost-c58-bln-more-than-announced-watchdog-2023-11-17/#:

The Parliamentary Budget Officer assessed the total cost of federal and provincial government support for the three plants would be C$43.6 billion ($31.75 billion) over 10 years, 15.6% higher than the C$37.7 billion in previously announced costs.

The EV battery projects are due to be built by Volkswagen (VOWG_p.DE), opens new tab, Stellantis (STLAM.MI), opens new tab with LG Energy Solution (373220.KS), opens new tab and Sweden's Northvolt.

If the plants aren't completed, if the people aren't hired, if the production doesn't start then the money doesn't get spent. If they shut up shop due to lack of demand....

 

[OldSolduer]

Years ago I said that solar and wind power are not dependable or feasible sources of generating electricity. BUT "experts" poo poo'd us serfs and peasants and told us what was good for us. Well F*CK YOU "experts" and the horses you rode in on. Oh but horses fart so I guess the "experts" should f*cking walk.

Besides it not the horses" fault they have asses riding them. I like horses actually.

 

[YZT580]

This is Canada. How much of that 25 BCAD has been spent vice how much has been promised? The people that promised that money are the same people that promised a working fleet of frigates for the navy.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/canadas-support-ev-battery-plants-cost-c58-bln-more-than-announced-watchdog-2023-11-17/#:

If the plants aren't completed, if the people aren't hired, if the production doesn't start then the money doesn't get spent. If they shut up shop due to lack of demand....

we can hope but I don't believe that those three companies will lose even if they never open the doors. Guarantee we will be on the hook for at least a portion of it

 

[GR66]

Regardless of where we end up in terms of EV/HEV usage the development of cheaper and higher energy density batteries is a definite plus.

Scientists at the Pohang University of Science and Technology in Korea have created a lithium-ion battery that promises higher energy density than conventional LI Batteries using existing technologies and a cheaper production process.

EVs that go 1,000 km on a single charge: Gel makes it possible

Engineers apply electron beam technology to develop an integrated silicon-gel electrolyte system.

www.sciencedaily.com

The outcome was remarkable: The battery exhibited stable performance even with micro silicon particles (5μm), which were a hundred times larger than those used in traditional nano-silicon anodes.

Additionally, the silicon-gel electrolyte system developed by the research team exhibited ion conductivity similar to conventional batteries using liquid electrolytes, with an approximate 40% improvement in energy density.

Moreover, the team's system holds significant value due to its straightforward manufacturing process that is ready for immediate application.

 

[Kirkhill]

Meanwhile the market sez

How crashing metals prices are dashing Canada’s dream of leading in critical minerals

Concerns that Canada will lose the race to produce critical minerals to rival producers has some miners calling for government intervention, including the potential for Ottawa to directly fund new projects

www.theglobeandmail.com

Plummeting prices for metals such as lithium and nickel are dashing Canada’s dream of becoming a global juggernaut for critical minerals, with a market capitulation making it even more challenging to raise the money needed to build new mines.

The recent crash has been swift. The price of lithium carbonate has dropped to roughly US$13,500 a tonne, according to Argus Media, down more than 80 per cent in little more than one year. In response, existing producers and processors such as Liontown Resources, based in Australia, and Albemarle, based in the United States, have shelved a mine expansion and laid off workers.

The price of nickel, meanwhile, has tumbled nearly 50 per cent over the same period, with three-month nickel futures falling to US$16,020 on the London Metal Exchange. Cobalt and graphite prices are struggling just the same.

Cooling demand for electric vehicles is one of the driving forces behind the recent drops. The likes of nickel, lithium, cobalt and graphite are all used in EV batteries, and until recently the hope was that rising demand for electric cars would create an undersupply of these metals.

Lately, though, EV sales have cooled in much of the Western world, and, in places such as Germany, are starting to fall off a cliff.

Betcha the MP for the Ring of Fire is perturbed.

 

[Cloud Cover]

These electric skid steers are starting to show up in Canada, or at least B.C.
Now on our farm we do use both tracked and wheeled skid steer loaders, they are both Kubota brand, and of course diesel. They are not expensive to operate, as long as I can stay ahead on maintenance and preventive maintenance. I’ve busted knuckles a few times on the old monkey wrench, but that’s part of the fun I guess.
That being said, I’d be willing to try an electric model if, and only if, it can run 5-6 hours without recharging, I can buy it used, and only if I can do the maintenance without involving very expensive technicians making field calls.

Elise | FIRSTGREEN Industries ►100% electric

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