Trust in our Institutions

[OldSolduer]

I'm pretty sure that every country engages in this sort of behavior - using friendly politicians and their aides to further their agenda.

Whether they do it legally or not is another matter - and there is an agent in every embassy.

 

[brihard]

Purely for the sake of clarifying discussion, here’s how Treason is actually defined in the Criminal Code:

46 (1) Every one commits high treason who, in Canada,

• (a) kills or attempts to kill Her Majesty, or does her any bodily harm tending to death or destruction, maims or wounds her, or imprisons or restrains her;
• (b) levies war against Canada or does any act preparatory thereto; or
• (c) assists an enemy at war with Canada, or any armed forces against whom Canadian Forces are engaged in hostilities, whether or not a state of war exists between Canada and the country whose forces they are.

(2) Every one commits treason who, in Canada,

• (a) uses force or violence for the purpose of overthrowing the government of Canada or a province;
• (b) without lawful authority, communicates or makes available to an agent of a state other than Canada, military or scientific information or any sketch, plan, model, article, note or document of a military or scientific character that he knows or ought to know may be used by that state for a purpose prejudicial to the safety or defence of Canada;
• (c) conspires with any person to commit high treason or to do anything mentioned in paragraph (a);
• (d) forms an intention to do anything that is high treason or that is mentioned in paragraph (a) and manifests that intention by an overt act; or
• (e) conspires with any person to do anything mentioned in paragraph (b) or forms an intention to do anything mentioned in paragraph (b) and manifests that intention by an overt act.

These are very restrictive; 2(b) is probably the closest to the discussion, but note that it speaks to military or scientific information.

The Security of Information Act has various sections that can conceivably come into play in the sorts of things being discussed, but even at that I suspect applicability is limited.

Bill C-70 will significantly amend various laws including SOIA and will add some probably essential tools. But they don’t exist yet and cannot be applied retroactively. I promised a few weeks ago to summarize it and give my thoughts; I apologize for not having done so yet… It’s even more timely now. I will get to it as soon as I’m able.

 

[The Bread Guy]

... I promised a few weeks ago to summarize it and give my thoughts; I apologize for not having done so yet… It’s even more timely now. I will get to it as soon as I’m able.

No worries -- thanks for the already-enlightening add-on info you're sharing. Much appreciated!

 

[brihard]

I’m curious if anyone’s gonna catch and point out the very significant challenge to prosecuting treason on that subsection…

(just conceptually/hypothetically- not in the context of specific goings-on currently in the news)

 

[The Bread Guy]

I’m curious if anyone’s gonna catch and point out the very significant challenge to prosecuting treason on that subsection…

Still WAY too early for nuance ....

Meanwhile, this from a Team Blue mass email sent yesterday ....

(Recipient name), this is an issue of National Security.

Could you help us get to the bottom of it?

According to a national security report, a number of federal politicians willingly assisted a HOSTILE foreign state in interfering in Parliament and with Canadian elections.

This is a foreign interference bombshell.

RELEASE THE NAMES.

Justin Trudeau has a list of the accused politicians. But he refuses to share it.

Who is he protecting?

Name the traitors. SIGN HERE to tell Trudeau to release the list of names.

Trudeau’s Liberals were made aware of foreign interference targeting Canada and Canadian citizens.

But they did nothing to protect our democracy.

When common sense Conservatives demanded the Liberals release the names, Liberal MP Jennifer O’Connell said:

“Boo hoo, get over it.”

Wow.

It is unacceptable that any Canadian politician would willingly help a hostile foreign power to interfere in Canadian elections and our democratic process.

It’s time for Trudeau to stop hiding the truth and release the list.

SIGN HERE to uncover the truth.



Thank you for your help, (Recipient name).

Let’s Bring it Home.

Sincerely,

Conservative Party of Canada

 

[dimsum]

I’m curious if anyone’s gonna catch and point out the very significant challenge to prosecuting treason on that subsection…

(just conceptually/hypothetically- not in the context of specific goings-on currently in the news)

Uh, what if it’s His Majesty?

 

[OldSolduer]

I'd like to know (because I am nosy) what exactly did these MPs do with the foreign agents?

 

[The Bread Guy]

I'd like to know (because I am nosy) what exactly did these MPs do with the foreign agents?

Here's the Cole's Notes version from the report for a start ....

... Only skimmed through the latest report (PDF), but spotted this & am sharing to give folks a sense of the range of stuff that's been dug up and reportedly passed along to the RCMP .....
View attachment 85786
(...)

 

[The Bread Guy]

Do MPs have good health care?

I bet a lot of them are going to come down with Han Dong's "I have no recollection of that" disease.

Until reminded by their wives, right?

 

[Eaglelord17]

I suspect part of the reason they don’t want to name the traitors is because if they kick 11 members out of their party caucus they will lose the ability to govern. That 11 seats would put them from a slight majority with NDP support to exactly 50% with NDP support.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I suspect part of the reason they don’t want to name the traitors is because if they kick 11 members out of their party caucus they will lose the ability to govern. That 11 seats would put them from a slight majority with NDP support to exactly 50% with NDP support.

I have a feeling the Liberals have a little more than 11 out of the 24 suspected members.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Strange that actual collusion between our politicians and foreigners doesn't seem to have people tearing their hair out as much as alleged-and-unproven collusion between US politicians and foreigners.

 

[PuckChaser]

There will likely be Tories and NDP involved too. If the list was all Tories it would have been leaked 5 minutes after submission to committee. They're hiding something.

 

[TacticalTea]

Strange that actual collusion between our politicians and foreigners doesn't seem to have people tearing their hair out as much as alleged-and-unproven collusion between US politicians and foreigners.

I haven't said much because I'm just at a loss for words.

Literal treason.

Yet... Eerily quiet.

Canadians have been told there might be traitors in Parliament. Why aren’t the Liberals and Conservatives running around like their heads are on fire?

Canadians need — and deserve — more of a response to foreign interference from their elected officials.

www.thestar.com

 

[brihard]

Strange that actual collusion between our politicians and foreigners doesn't seem to have people tearing their hair out as much as alleged-and-unproven collusion between US politicians and foreigners.

I’d say it’s likely, given who the membership of this site generally is, that there’s more need for many members to be cautious in their online commenting regarding domestic national security issues.

 

[The Bread Guy]

There will likely be Tories and NDP involved too. If the list was all Tories it would have been leaked 5 minutes after submission to committee. They're hiding something.

The possibility is still more than zero that some media outlet(s) has the list and is sweating it out with lawyers, too. Watch & shoot, as they used to say at the ranges ...

 

[The Bread Guy]

Canadians have been told there might be traitors in Parliament. Why aren’t the Liberals and Conservatives running around like their heads are on fire?

Canadians need — and deserve — more of a response to foreign interference from their elected officials.

www.thestar.com

Good line from Susan Delacourt: "Liberals, as we know, have a knack for prolonging their own suffering."

 

[The Bread Guy]

Let's see how this goes this week ....

Opposition parties urge collusion revelations be turned over to foreign interference inquiry

On Monday, the House of Commons will debate the request made by the Bloc Québécois. MPs will vote on it on Tuesday and New Democrats have already said they will support the proposal

www.theglobeandmail.com

Article also archived here if previous link doesn't work for you.

Motion =/= binding on government, but if the other two main parties with (we all suspect) names on "the list" as well want this, won't be a good look for Team Red - again.

Also, don't know how much more info the Hogue probe can pull out vs. how much it could share given the sensitivity of the info in question, but we'll see ...

 

[Remius]

Apparently the leader of the Bloc is going to get cleared to see the list.

My guess is after he will announce that his party is free of any MPs who may be tainted.

 

[brihard]

The possibility is still more than zero that some media outlet(s) has the list and is sweating it out with lawyers, too. Watch & shoot, as they used to say at the ranges ...

At present, the case law is not favourable for investigating or prosecuting reporters for publishing national security information. That case lawn’s about 18 years old, O’Neill v Canada, and saw part of the Security of Information Act struck down through an Ottawa Citizen reporter challenging a search warrant issued after she published sensitive information about the Maher Arar case. SOIA has not been reformed since. https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.612129

I’m not aware of any prosecution since for journalistic publishing of leaked national security information. With that said, in a hypothetical of classified national security information being disclosed to the media, the leakers themselves would likely be fair game if investigators could identify them and confirm the leak. The applicable law there would likely be s.16 of SOIA, which the RCMP recently got one of their own convicted on. Of course, usual caveat for I2E, evidentiary admissibility etc etc. But, even short of prosecution, their clearances and careers would be forfeit if caught.