The Next Conservative Leader

[observor 69]

Mentioning MLK Jr and Trump in the same breath. 

 

[The Bread Guy]

I can see the Conservative Parties of Canada and Ontario, both having the same problem: people are tired of the "politician without a dream" and the end result is that only a "loser" will face off against the Liberals.  The candidate who comes forward with a "dream" may well take the leadership by storm.

Have to be careful about such dreams, though - one man's "Make x Great Again" is another man's "X's back!"  Sound nice, but not much substance in the slogan alone.

Then again, who reads platform documents anymore anyway, right? 

 

[mariomike]

Mentioning MLK Jr and Trump in the same breath. 

I remember going into homes here in Toronto and seeing three portraits on the walls: Jesus Christ, President Kennedy and Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.

 

[Remius]

Reflecting on the US election, and the failures in our recent elections, I can see O'Leary actually doing well.  People seem to dismiss the current crop of "leadership" candidates who have "no vision" or "dream", who just seem to follow the tired old Party Lines and seem to be only in it for profit.  Trump came out with a "dream"; a dream "to make America Great again."  Perhaps he was playing on Martin Luther King Jr's "I have a dream" or actually had a desire to make America Great again.  I can see the Conservative Parties of Canada and Ontario, both having the same problem: people are tired of the "politician without a dream" and the end result is that only a "loser" will face off against the Liberals.  The candidate who comes forward with a "dream" may well take the leadership by storm.

It's not a question of dreaming as much as it is them being uninspiring.  And that is personal opinion I admit.

But there are fundamental differences between our system and theirs and even the conservative vs liberal mindset here.  Remember that Stephen harper's conservatives had more in common with the Democrats than anything else and that our Liberals are far more to the left than the democrats are.

The concern is that the CPC is an alliance of conservatives.  Fiscal, progressives and traditional social conservatives.  Ms. Leitch will likely split her party perhaps irreversibly along those lines.  O'Leary is more of a red tory and conservatives don't think he espouses traditional conservative views or values.  Other than the economy he has very little in common with them.  That will also lead to a split, I fear.  I can't see, so far, any leader that can keep the party united like Brian Mulroney or Stephen harper was able to do.

I have no doubt that either can win the leadership.  It will be interesting to see what sort of party comes after though.

 

[Good2Golf]

The discussion of CPC vs. "Alliance (re-branded Reform) + PC" and whether a split is inevitable has been a long time coming.  :nod:

Regards
G2G

 

[Altair]

It's not a question of dreaming as much as it is them being uninspiring.  And that is personal opinion I admit.

But there are fundamental differences between our system and theirs and even the conservative vs liberal mindset here.  Remember that Stephen harper's conservatives had more in common with the Democrats than anything else and that our Liberals are far more to the left than the democrats are.

The concern is that the CPC is an alliance of conservatives.  Fiscal, progressives and traditional social conservatives.  Ms. Leitch will likely split her party perhaps irreversibly along those lines.  O'Leary is more of a red tory and conservatives don't think he espouses traditional conservative views or values.  Other than the economy he has very little in common with them.  That will also lead to a split, I fear.  I can't see, so far, any leader that can keep the party united like Brian Mulroney or Stephen harper was able to do.

I have no doubt that either can win the leadership.  It will be interesting to see what sort of party comes after though.

Is O'Leary even a Conservative? I could just as easily see him running under a liberal banner if they happened to have a job opening for a leader right now.

He, like Trump in a sense, is simply using the party as a vehicle to advance. I think in that sense he can appeal to a broad number of Canadians and not get stuck in the ideological battles of lifelong conservative members. And like trump and the republicans, enough CPC members would never vote for anyone else ever, allowing him to pick up more voters from groups that traditionally don't vote conservative.

Someone like Leitch is perfect to win the leadership, appealing to enough conservative core members to get them to support her, but come election time I doubt her ability to expand the party past what they got in the last election.

I personally would only vote for Erin Or O'Leary out of the conservative camp. Anyone else and I'm either voting BQ or LPC.

 

[ballz]

If O'Leary could speak french I could possibly vote for him over Bernier. Not that I think he's got better policies than Bernier, but in our modern day obsession with celebrity over substance, O'Leary has more brand value with the average Canadian. However, unable to take on Trudeau in Quebec and Trudeau runs away with Quebec in the election and is almost guaranteed victory. Maxime Bernier is the only candidate that can take on Trudeau in Quebec. Anyone else (so far) will have to win without Quebec as PM Harper struggled to do.

Conservatives seem to be falling into the same stupid game than the Liberals fell into that decimated their party and made them irrelevant for a short period of time..... just looking for a "star" candidate. Look where that got the country... deficits until 2050... and if we play the same game, PM Trudeau will actually be PM long enough to run deficits until 2050.

O'Leary is more of a red tory and conservatives don't think he espouses traditional conservative views or values.  Other than the economy he has very little in common with them.

Is O'Leary even a Conservative? I could just as easily see him running under a liberal banner if they happened to have a job opening for a leader right now.

He's practically libertarian. A "moderate" libertarian if you will (wait, is that an oxymoron haha), fiscally conservative and socially liberal. He's already said he would have a hard time running against Bernier because he agrees with everything Bernier says.

I get what you are saying but I don't think O'Leary could win leadership with the Liberals, they are far too happy to *spend* money in the way they think we all ought to live. I think O'Leary, Bernier, and other fiscally conservative, socially liberal people can really only fit in the Conservative party since taxes / government spending dominates much of the discussion. Their laissez-faire approach to social issues will always handicap them within the CPC though.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

How can you be a libertarian, moderate or not, and still believe in gun control?

 

[Jarnhamar]

Is O'Leary even a Conservative? I could just as easily see him running under a liberal banner if they happened to have a job opening for a leader right now.

I think you're 100% right.

 

[Altair]

How can you be a libertarian, moderate or not, and still believe in gun control?

How can one be conservative and support gay marriage?

He's not a cookie cutter libertarian, he's Kevin O'Leary. I don't think one can label him very effectively.

I think you're 100% right.

This is a rare occurance.

 

[ballz]

How can you be a libertarian, moderate or not, and still believe in gun control?

You're asking about O'Leary, right? What was his stance on gun control?

I don't know O'Leary's stance on gun control, so I can't comment specifically towards him. But even I, as a libertarian who hates the Firearms Act and would burn it in a heartbeat, and would drastically reduce the firearms (and other weapons) laws we have, believe in a level of gun control that some libertarians would claim makes me a communist.

In any case, many libertarians would savagely attack any other "libertarian" who doesn't conform to what they believe is the "true" form of libertarianism. Anarchists would throw minarchists and classical liberals under the bus in a heartbeat. I've taken a ton of flak for believing Canada should have a standing professional military (a larger, more expensive one at that), which apparently makes me the worse libertarian to ever live. Libertarians are their own worse enemies.

 

[Jarnhamar]

You're asking about O'Leary, right? What was his stance on gun control?

I don't know O'Leary's stance on gun control

Here are quotes from Kevin O'Leary on AR15 rifles in Canada.

"there is no need anybody to have that"

" you would never hunt with it, you would only use it to kill people.."

"that is a weapon that is just used to kill everybody in the room! Who should have that? Nobody! "

"unless you are an accredited law enforcement officer, what the hell are you doing with that rifle?"

 

[a_majoor]

The problem in a sense is that people are trying to emulate Donald Trump, but Donald Trump is a unique individual, and anyone trying to emulate him will not be able to do so.

The other issue is that Donald Trump, while notionally "Republican", is really the leader of the New American Party, and trying to pin traditional Republican (or even Democrat) labels on his program is a mugs game. The populism that President Trump tapped into is specific for the here and now of the United States, and anyone who wants to play the "Trump card" in Canada would have to find the specific flash points for Canadian population, and the means to connect directly with the population (bypassing the media gatekeepers).

Of course not only will there be some people who will try to emulate President Trump without understanding who he is and what he stands for, but the Canadian media will also be happy to try to pin the table on people they don't like (also without understanding who President Trump is or what he stands for).

 

[mariomike]

Here are quotes from Kevin O'Leary on AR15 rifles in Canada.

"that is a weapon that is just used to kill everybody in the room!"

I thought that was the AK?! 

"AK-47, the very best there is. When you absolutely, positively, got to kill every mother%$#er in the room; accept no substitutes."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDyXbcu2RXg

"NOTHING, gets between me and my AK!" 

 

[ballz]

Here are quotes from Kevin O'Leary on AR15 rifles in Canada.

Well that's disappointing... Another city-kid that is automatically scared by their own ignorance. I suspect, away from the TV and over a beer, he'd probably see the light.... but pobody's nerfect.

EDIT: Regardless, I would still see him as fiscally conservative, socially laissez-faire on *most* issues... which is a moderate libertarian. Everyone has exceptions to an ideology that they are associated with (whether or not they choose to be), if not they're probably crazy.

 

[vonGarvin]

I fail to understand why people are afraid of social conservatives. The stuff that the social Liberals are ramming down our Collective throats is appalling.

 

[ballz]

I fail to understand why people are afraid of social conservatives. The stuff that the social Liberals are ramming down our Collective throats is appalling.

I'm afraid of anyone that thinks it's okay to use the state to tell me how to live my life. Social conservatives and social progressives are equally terrifying.

When I say socially liberal, I mean liberal in the classical liberal sense, not today's version of the word.

EDIT: In fact, I see social conservatives and social progressives as equals. "It's not about left vs right, it's about authoritarianism vs liberty."

 

[The Bread Guy]

... Another expat city-kid that is automatically scared by their own ignorance ...

FTFY

 

[George Wallace]

Well....we won't need Russian hackers with Bernier at the helm.  He'll just leave those Secret documents laying around his condo for anyone to view.  >

 

[cavalryman]

Well....we won't need Russian hackers with Bernier at the helm.  He'll just leave those Secret documents laying around his condo for anyone to view.  >

Just think about the opportunities for disinformation  [