Our North - SSE Policy Update Megathread

[Maxman1]

So reopening CFS Frobisher Bay.

CFS Frobisher Bay - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[daftandbarmy]

So reopening CFS Frobisher Bay.

CFS Frobisher Bay - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Clearly, the Yanks are already invading Iqaluit. Look at the way they spelled 'armoury'

 

[Kirkhill]

Iqaluit - Latitude 63.7467° N, Population 7248

Fairbanks - Latitude 64.8401° N, Population 31,856
Pituffik - 76.5293° N, Population 650

Yellowknife - Latitude 62.4540° N
Inuvik - 68.3594° N
Resolute - 74.6973° N.
Alert - 82.5018° N

....

Iqaluit is a Forward Operating Location
Does it need a permanent permanent force in residence? Or could it be upgraded and stocked to support High Arctic deployments and manned by local civilian contractors with an enhanced Ranger force providing local police/security service. A lilypad for southern squadrons to squat on.

I note that Pituffik has a population of 650 with most of that being locals and civilian contractors. The uniformed component seems to be about 150 with HQ back in Colorado.

 

[Navy_Pete]

I like how the Yanks do it. Everyone gets an initial issue, after it's on your dime.

It's actually both, it's poor contacting at the LCMM level and poor SC management, again at the LCMM level.

The clothing cell is a weird black box, but is apparently a terrible place to work where they never get anywhere near enough money to keep up with known usage or initial issue, lot of confliciting and changing requirements from environment commanders and other issues. The few people I knew that dropped in there were looking for a posting by maintop, and lot of the civilians jump on lateral moves to pretty much anywhere else.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Other American traces.

Alert, Eureka, Resolute, Mould Bay, Isachsen, (Joint Arctic Weather Stations 1946-1950)
Iqaluit (Frobisher), Kuujuaq (Chimo), 1942

CANOL Norman Wells Project (1942)
Alaska Highway (1942)
Prince Rupert (1942) - Rupert existed prior to 1942 but the Americans connected it to Terrace and then the Alaska Highway.

NORAD
Pinetree Line
DEW Line
BMEWS Line
North Warning System

And all the airfields on Greenland, including Thule (Pituffik) (1943)

....

If it wasn't for the USAF and the HBC there would be no development north of Yonge Street.

...

Sorry, I short changed Bell, Alcoa and Standard Oil.

PPS - Might also want to reference the cultural importance of Andrew Carnegie and his Carnegie Libraries.

All of the docks at Port Edward (close to Prince Rupert) were built by the Americans, with no approval from Canada, after the crisis calmed down, they went "Oops, sorry" and Canada wrote OIC's approving them as is.

 

[YZT580]

All of the docks at Port Edward (close to Prince Rupert) were built by the Americans, with no approval from Canada, after the crisis calmed down, they went "Oops, sorry" and Canada wrote OIC's approving them as is.

We weren't entirely dependent on the Americans by any means. Had the fortunate chance to spend a fair bit of time with a Canadian vet (Wes McIntosh) who spent years after WW2 freighting supplies up during the construction of the NORAD sites. There were lots of Canadians involved in all of that. His memoires are well worth the read if you can find a copy.

 

[KevinB]

Clearly, the Yanks are already invading Iqaluit. Look at the way they spelled 'armoury'

View attachment 91202

Biggest benefit to being the 51st State -- you dump a lot of useless U's.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Biggest benefit to being the 51st State -- you dump a lot of useless U's.

Just imagine the threads here on Army.ca about starting a National Guard as well......

 

[foresterab]

We weren't entirely dependent on the Americans by any means. Had the fortunate chance to spend a fair bit of time with a Canadian vet (Wes McIntosh) who spent years after WW2 freighting supplies up during the construction of the NORAD sites. There were lots of Canadians involved in all of that. His memoires are well worth the read if you can find a copy.

Grew up talking with the "old boys" of whom many had worked on the Alaska Highway/CANOL road or NORAD sites (Dew and Pinetree chains). Remembering asking one of them if the war years and rationing affected them much..."nope..not really. Any time we were short we just went to Dawson Creek - Mile 0 - and did some nighttime shopping" "shopping?" "Well they had to fire a warning shot first.....mind you some of them were better shots than others".

Several then went on to join the various Armed Forces....with a significant number not returning. Also the Air Ferry routes to Russia some folks got involved with.

50 years later still finding out about more sites/projects that were going on around the north that were short lived/small numbers/under Secrets Act.

 

[MilEME09]

Another HQ but farther north is not required.

Thankfully JTF North HQ already exists

 

[Kirkhill]

Thankfully JTF North HQ already exists

Yellowknife at 62.5N
Iqaluit marginally further north at 63.7N
Inuvik 68N

Arctic Circle 66.3N

Resolute 74.7N
Alert 82N

 

[MilEME09]

Yellowknife at 62.5N
Iqaluit marginally further north at 63.7N
Inuvik 68N

Arctic Circle 66.3N

Resolute 74.7N
Alert 82N

fine, you win, lets convene a council to decide what type of general we need in Iqaluit

 

[Kirkhill]

fine, you win, lets convene a council to decide what type of general we need in Iqaluit

Commander Nunavut National Guard? Brigadier General?

Or maybe just Adjutant General?

 

[daftandbarmy]

Yellowknife at 62.5N
Iqaluit marginally further north at 63.7N
Inuvik 68N

Arctic Circle 66.3N

Resolute 74.7N
Alert 82N

Can confirm

 

[Kirkhill]

And then there is Longyearbyen at 78 N with a year round population of 2595 built on a coal deposit

Longyearbyen - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Iqaluit

 

[Kirkhill]

Poilievre is offering an enhanced presence at Iqaluit.
Ability to launch F35s and P8s, and presumably, SkyGuardian UAVs.

The problem is that Goose Bay problem. Getting people to live there.

Poilievre also suggested doubling the strength of Canadian Ranger Patrol Group 1.


Currently there are about 5000 Rangers enrolled across Canada. 2000 of those are in the three northern territories under the auspices of JTF(N) - Joint Task Force (N) out of Yellowknife.

CRPG 1 (JTF(N)) ~2000 Rangers in 61 patrols in Nunavut, Yukon and the Northwest Territories with 1400 junior rangers
CRPG 2 (JTF(E)) in 33 patrols in Quebec
CRPG 3 (JTF(C)) in 29 patrols in Northern Ontario
CRPG 4 (JTF(W)) in 44 patrols in BC, AB, SK and MB
CRPG 5 (JTF(A)) in 32 patrols in Newfoundland and Labrador.

JTF(N) and CRPG 1 have responsibility for 40% of Canada's land mass. Within their territory are 10 operational Long Range Radars (LRR), 36 unattended Short Range Radar (SRR) and 5 Logistics Support Sites (LSS). As well there are RCAF Forward Operating Locations (FOLs) at Inuvik and Iqaluit as well as at Yellowknife which also serves as JTF(N) HQ. Other military installations in the area include the Nanisivik refuelling station, the Resolute Bay training area and CFS Alert.

Security at these stations has been debated for quite a while. Southerners have been quite reluctant to put themselves forwards as the primary guarantors of that security.

Suppose Poilievre is considering, with his doubling of the CRPG1 team from 2000 to 4000 (bringing the total Ranger strength from 5000 to 7000), creating a full time security force of 2000. The current Rangers are not infanteers. They are observers. They are not expected to fight to hold ground. They are expected to observe and report incursions and wait for some one down south to make the problem go away.

Suppose the Rangers remit were expanded to include Vital Point security as well. Still not necessarily an active combat team, although why not a local Arctic Response Company Group, but locals patrolling perimeters, standing gate guard, checking on remote radar sites?

Would the locals be interested in steady jobs and paychecks in their back yards? With the prospect of additional careers in the CAF also being possible?

 

[Furniture]

The problem is that Goose Bay problem. Getting people to live there.

There is a relatively simple solution to that. Make comfortable housing and provide it as a benefit, as well as a healthy pay bonus for being in an isolated posting.

The CAF seems adverse to doing what is proven to work. Pay people buckets of cash, and they will go places they don't want to, to do jobs they don't want to do.

 

[Kirkhill]

There is a relatively simple solution to that. Make comfortable housing and provide it as a benefit, as well as a healthy pay bonus for being in an isolated posting.

The CAF seems adverse to doing what is proven to work. Pay people buckets of cash, and they will go places they don't want to, to do jobs they don't want to do.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/for-sale-lightly-used-1-200-person-northern-alberta-work-camp-1.3704229

"Imagine a camp the size of a small town, but with all the modern conveniences of the big city: full-service dining, medical clinic, modern living suites, bar/lounge and recreation suites, and wireless internet."

The camp has a fully equipped gym complex with an indoor running track, squash courts, weights and aerobic equipment.

For the less motivated, the rec room is complete with golf simulators, pool tables, table tennis and foosball.
Alberta has never seemed to find it difficult to get folks from the east to fill up camps like this on rotating shifts.

The camp has its own power and utilities and is divided into several complexes, with "three wings of living areas with 1,232 fully furnished executive-style rooms."

Fort McMurray mayor takes aim at rotational work camps - Journal Of Commerce

Fort McMurray, Alta. city officials are proposing new rules that would attempt to reduce the amount of work camps near the city. After several days of debate and compromise, city council voted unanimously to support an amended motion that would reject pe

canada.constructconnect.com

 

[foresterab]

View attachment 91267

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/for-sale-lightly-used-1-200-person-northern-alberta-work-camp-1.3704229

Fort McMurray mayor takes aim at rotational work camps - Journal Of Commerce

Fort McMurray, Alta. city officials are proposing new rules that would attempt to reduce the amount of work camps near the city. After several days of debate and compromise, city council voted unanimously to support an amended motion that would reject pe

canada.constructconnect.com

Sigh...that's a fancy but small camp up there. Some are 9,999 person accomidations and multi-level. But shows what is potentially involved or able to be offered.

Credit to the builders where those rooms are generally pretty decent to stay in and stay warm in -40 temps. They are however much shorter lifespans than conventional full builds.

 

[Halifax Tar]

There is a relatively simple solution to that. Make comfortable housing and provide it as a benefit, as well as a healthy pay bonus for being in an isolated posting.

The CAF seems adverse to doing what is proven to work. Pay people buckets of cash, and they will go places they don't want to, to do jobs they don't want to do.

I'm not sure its the CAF that's adverse to doing that.