Maritime Coastal Defence Vessels (MCDVs)

[Oldgateboatdriver]

The answer to Czech_Pivo in any event is: never. We never even have had a single minehunter. We have had minesweepers, and the MCDV's can do various tasks associated with mine warfare (hence their designation as MM, meaning Miscellaneous Mine warfare), but they are not mine hunters.

The European nations fought two world wars in their waters where huge quantities of mines were used both offensively and defensively and large number of bombs were dropped in the water. To this day, they still find old, unexploded ones. Thus they need minehunters and mine warfare capabilities that we don't. In Canada and the USA, the only mines we had to worry about were the ones from our own defensive fields around a few of our harbours. We knew where they were and removed them after the war. End of need for mine warfare crafts.

The Bay class minesweepers of the 50's mentioned by FSTO ceased to be used for minesweeping in the early 60's and were turned into training vessels for MARS 3 and 4 navigation and OOW basic training and for the more advanced DNO training, until their retirement when the MCDV's came on line.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I will argue that you could effectively bottleneck the West coast of Canada with a merchant ship designed to drop delay mines on the navigation channels. You might lose said ship, but that could cause quite the issue depending on how many and what type of mines they use.

 

[KevinB]

I will argue that you could effectively bottleneck the West coast of Canada with a merchant ship designed to drop delay mines on the navigation channels. You might lose said ship, but that could cause quite the issue depending on how many and what type of mines they use.

Yes, but why ?

China isn’t going to want that, so your threat actors aren’t going to do it any time soon.

Now if China went for Taiwan, then your screwed.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Yes, but why ?

China isn’t going to want that, so your threat actors aren’t going to do it any time soon.

Now if China went for Taiwan, then your screwed.

That is a logical thought and history shows us that logic and economic ties will not stop an adversary from doing something to their opponent, even if it hurts them. Had Russia developed free trade and port access agreements with Ukraine instead of seizing Crimea, they would both be doing very well for themselves. Hell even in 1811 the Northern States were saying "We don't want to go to war with our best trading partner". There are other examples out there as well. I no longer believe economic ties are at all useful to predict a potentiel opponents actions.

 

[Stoker]

HMCS Goosebay off northern Labrador

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Is that a submarine disguised as an iceberg behind her?

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I like her paint job.

 

[Stoker]

It appears that the Kingston Class are on the verge of being paid off.

Ottawa looking at retiring some older military equipment — including the Snowbird jets

The Department of National Defence is actively considering whether to retire some older ships, planes and other items of equipment that have become difficult and costly to maintain — including the aircraft belonging to the iconic Snowbird demonstration squadron.In an interview with CBC News...

ca.news.yahoo.com

 

[Rainbow1910]

It appears that the Kingston Class are on the verge of being paid off.

I’m not sure how wise it is to be paying off any reasonable chunk of the MCDV fleet considering a replacement is quite a distance off. Losing the cheap and cheerful capability/MCM ability that the class provides seems shortsighted. Cutting your cheap class down to try and pay for the more expensive capabilities you have in service now?

 

[Underway]

It appears that the Kingston Class are on the verge of being paid off.

Ottawa looking at retiring some older military equipment — including the Snowbird jets

The Department of National Defence is actively considering whether to retire some older ships, planes and other items of equipment that have become difficult and costly to maintain — including the aircraft belonging to the iconic Snowbird demonstration squadron.In an interview with CBC News...

ca.news.yahoo.com

I could see a few being paid off, but not the whole fleet. Perhaps 6 (2 west, 4 east) as the AOPS come fully online and take over a lot of their roles.

 

[Pelorus]

I think you'll see West Coast ones paid off prior to East Coast ones; they're barely sailing as is due to personnel constraints. East Coast isn't doing great for personnel either but is better off at the moment than Esquimalt.

 

[Lumber]

I’m not sure how wise it is to be paying off any reasonable chunk of the MCDV fleet considering a replacement is quite a distance off. Losing the cheap and cheerful capability/MCM ability that the class provides seems shortsighted. Cutting your cheap class down to try and pay for the more expensive capabilities you have in service now?

It's not about "paying for the more expensive capabilities"; it's a lack of crewing.

 

[Stoker]

It's not about "paying for the more expensive capabilities"; it's a lack of crewing.

They could try and get more reserves.

 

[Lumber]

They could try and get more reserves.

What if, now just hear me out, we made them primarily reserve boats crewed by Class-C reservists, augmented by Reg Force? I think that'd be a novel idea!

 

[dapaterson]

What if, now just hear me out, we made them primarily reserve boats crewed by Class-C reservists, augmented by Reg Force? I think that'd be a novel idea!

Last time I saw the figures, outside the summer surge period, over 40% of Primary Reserve personnel at the ranks of MS-CPO1 and Lt(N)-Cdr(and junior service equivalents) were already on full-time service.

Perhaps the solution is for the Reg F to sort out its personnel management and stop relying on personnel enrolled for "other than continuing, full-time military service" to fill holes.

 

[MilEME09]

Perhaps the solution is for the Reg F to sort out its personnel management and stop relying on personnel enrolled for "other than continuing, full-time military service" to fill holes.

Whole CAF struggles with that, how many navy personal are also hiding in army, and airforce bases?

 

[dapaterson]

Whole CAF struggles with that, how many navy personal are also hiding in army, and airforce bases?

The obsession with colour of uniform is a head scratcher, to me. One of the most hardcoire Army people I know was an RCAF cook.

 

[dimsum]

Whole CAF struggles with that, how many navy personal are also hiding in army, and airforce bases?

IMO, zero.

They may have an RCN DEU that they wear on occasion, but if they are a purple trade, they are no more Navy than their CA or RCAF counterpart in the same trade. There are occasions where an RCAF or CA person could sail more than most RCN folks.

Now, there are some sub-specialties that do break out between elements (e.g. Sea Log is pretty specific to RCN folks) but an RCAF Med Tech isn’t really that different than a CA or RCN Med Tech.

 

[Halifax Tar]

IMO, zero.

They may have an RCN DEU that they wear on occasion, but if they are a purple trade, they are no more Navy than their CA or RCAF counterpart in the same trade. There are occasions where an RCAF or CA person could sail more than most RCN folks.

Now, there are some sub-specialties that do break out between elements (e.g. Sea Log is pretty specific to RCN folks) but an RCAF Med Tech isn’t really that different than a CA or RCN Med Tech.

It a stupid mess, and we cling to it.

 

[Zoomie]

Whole CAF struggles with that, how many navy personal are also hiding in army, and airforce bases?

I have 5 hard sea trades working for me. PO1 down to S1.