Maritime Coastal Defence Vessels (MCDVs)

[Halifax Tar]

But personally, I can't see this ever taking happening. I think it's a ploy by the RCN to shut up some of the army critics that lurk in these fora here on Milnet.ca and constantly want to arm every ship to the teeth.

The RCNs first and primary job should be to provide the GOC with combat capable fighting platforms and crews. Everything else is secondary. And everything secondary to those is better done by having those.

An operational naval vessel that doesn't need weapons should be painted red and white and given to the CCG or given the Fleet Auxiliary.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Having been involved in both scrapping and reefing it's a not brainer for us to scrap everything. Still cheaper to scrap, and so much is now controlled goods, ITAR etc demilitarizing it beforehand is just not feasible (at least for combatants).

With how much high quality brass and copper is onboard as well as the equipment density we actually do reasonably well on that offsetting a lot of the environmental remediation, but the big reason is because literally everything gets run through a giant metal shredder as part of the disposal so demil by destruction is part of the process.

Otherwise that would be a secondary, offsite process with a huge amount of tracking and accountability down to the (sometimes literal) nut and bolt level.

You still get the high grade a ship when reefing. The ARSBC is not going to take on another ship as a volunteer project. They will supervise and plan the reefing. We trailed this with the reefing of one of the hulks at Powell River, the Mill hired local labour to prep the ship and then it was towed out and sunk successfully. We worked on a project back East, but the shipyard took the society working on the project to the cleaners with exorbitant charges for everything. Currently we are negotiating on two vessels right now.
You still face the same issue with ITAR while scrapping, the DDE were stripped of all of their gear. Rather than degrease a motor or davit, just cut it off and remove it. The real cost in scrapping is cutting and removing the steel, which is actually the least valuable component of the ship.

 

[Navy_Pete]

You would be shocked at the weird things that need de-militarized, and some of them are actually part of the water tight integrity, so sinking it down to divable depth doesn't really do it. For ALG for example, being down 2700+ m was considered demilitarized for what was left on board.

The amount of tracking and paperwork that goes into that process is a bit staggering, but it's to avoid repeats of some pretty serious breaches in the past.

We may go that route for non combatants built to commercial standards, but with something like the CPF we'll scrap them to ensure the demil is done. It actually rolls up from the component level all the way to the ship NSN, with each needing verified as demilitarized before you can say the entire ship is demilitarized (each ship is defined as a weapon system). It was a lot easier with older ships which had a lot less electronics, and the rules were looser around what was controlled.

Still get bits and pieces taken off for display across the country, but that is an additional cost so done fairly sparingly. They get a full enviro remediation, cabling removed etc (plus usually a prep and paint if it's steel) before they go on a lawn somewhere. That's why anchors are popular I guess, probably the easiest thing to set up for display, and pretty obviously nautical.

 

[Rainbow1910]

I was reading through the new edition of Canadian Defence Review when I saw some interesting information. The image below is low quality but it seems Vard has shown off a "new" Vigilance concept. I initially thought it was a reused old rendering but they did add a maple leaf to the funnel alongside the pennant number of an MCDV follow on. As far as I can tell, this model is unique and largely changed from the previous proposals. What looks to me like a Bofors 40mm Mk4 is added forward alongside perhaps a 30mm gun mount adjacent to the mast? UAV deck and multi-mission deck has been changed around alongside the small boat arrangement. Grain of salt as per usual but potentially more relevant when taking into consideration the next point.

They have an article talking about a "new Canadian Multi-Mission Corvette (CMC) program" which apparently exists according to them and the CDR.

Vard also has this apparent program listed on their current DND projects. I haven't heard of this program being announced even though it has been rumored for years at this point. Did Vard just leak the program officially or is this just their marketing?

As I spoke about here back in April, it would seem that Vard has done a complete overhaul on their Vigilance proposal to transform it into what could be called a corvette at this point. I have heard murmurings elsewhere of the Canadian Multi-Mission Corvette program and I would guess this design was modified to reflect what the RCN might one day be considering for such a thing. It is a potentially interesting insight on what Vard thinks the RCN might be looking for, something to definitely consider with a grain of salt.

Team Vigilance | Next Generation Naval Vessel

Team Vigilance is a collaboration between Vard Marine, Ontario Shipyards, Thales Canada, SH Defence, and Fincantieri. The Vigilance Next Generation Naval Vessel was launched at CANSEC 2023. It is tailored to the future needs of the Royal Canadian Navy and aims to replace the Kingston Class...

www.teamvigilance.com

Vard has updated their Vigilance website with a nice rotatable 3D model which provides information on their "Flight II" variant, the link is provided below but I have also provided images for those unable to view the site itself. There is also a YouTube video I will attach at the bottom which goes over the new model and showcases capabilities. I will list below the specifications provided on the 3D model viewer for anybody interested. It would seem there is a "Flight I" variant which is basically what was shown off back in April to a similar degree, largely still lightly armed compared to a more heavily armed and equipped "Flight II" variant.

Weapons + Countermeasures - Flight II

2 x 3-Cell ExLS with 24x CAMM Surface to Air Missiles
1 x 40mm Main Gun
2 x 12.7mm or 20mm Remote Weapons System
2 x Decoy Launching System (MASS used on CPF currently)

Modularized Weapon Systems - Flight II
Naval Strike Missile (up to 24 missiles!)
Mk 70 Payload Delivery System (Modularized Mk 41 VLS) (3-4 four cell launchers)
Mk 54 Lightweight Torpedo
ASW Decoy Launchers

Main Sensors - Flight II

NS100 - 4D AESA Radar
STIR - Tracking and Illumination Radar
Scout Mk3 - Medium Range Covert Surveillance Radar
Gatekeeper - Electro-Optical Security Sensors
Bluewatcher / Bluehunter - Hull Mounted Sonar
Altesse-H - Communications Electronic Support Measures / COMINT
Vigile Mkt - Radar Electronic Support Measures
Integrated Internal + External Communication System

Modularized Sensors - Flight II

CAPTAS-2 Variable Depth Sonar Pathmaster Mine Countermeasures USV

Oversized Ops / Comms Room

Ops room designed with future fit and modular payloads in mind. Designed to house operators for all organic and offboard systems (UAS, AUV, USV).

Designed for Oceanic Transits

Hull designed for enhanced oceanic seakeeping and long range (Esquimalt to Yokosuka direct / Halifax to Sierra Leone direct).

Enhanced Crew Comfort

Officers and Senior NCM's in 2-person cabins with ensuite washrooms/showers. Junior NCM's in 4 person cabins. Dedicated leisure and gym facilities and all ranks mess.

Dedicated UAV / UAS Facilities

Organic landing, hanger and maintenance facilities for multiple UAV / UAS.

Modular Mission Deck

Aft mission deck sized for 4 x 40ft modules or 8 x 20ft modules in various configurations. Built-in deck skidding system allows for rapid movement and securing of modules on deck.

Efficient Hull and Machinery

Hull and machinery optimized for efficiency across operating speed range. PTI/PTO used to enhance overall efficiency at lower speeds.

 

[Halifax Tar]

As I spoke about here back in April, it would seem that Vard has done a complete overhaul on their Vigilance proposal to transform it into what could be called a corvette at this point. I have heard murmurings elsewhere of the Canadian Multi-Mission Corvette program and I would guess this design was modified to reflect what the RCN might one day be considering for such a thing. It is a potentially interesting insight on what Vard thinks the RCN might be looking for, something to definitely consider with a grain of salt.

Team Vigilance | Next Generation Naval Vessel

Team Vigilance is a collaboration between Vard Marine, Ontario Shipyards, Thales Canada, SH Defence, and Fincantieri. The Vigilance Next Generation Naval Vessel was launched at CANSEC 2023. It is tailored to the future needs of the Royal Canadian Navy and aims to replace the Kingston Class...

www.teamvigilance.com

Vard has updated their Vigilance website with a nice rotatable 3D model which provides information on their "Flight II" variant, the link is provided below but I have also provided images for those unable to view the site itself. There is also a YouTube video I will attach at the bottom which goes over the new model and showcases capabilities. I will list below the specifications provided on the 3D model viewer for anybody interested. It would seem there is a "Flight I" variant which is basically what was shown off back in April to a similar degree, largely still lightly armed compared to a more heavily armed and equipped "Flight II" variant.



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Sharp looking ship.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

If they want it to deploy surface or subsurface drones, it's going to need some sort of crane? Edit, so they are looking at a pod crane and are those VLS behind the gun? If so, this ship certainly seems to have a fair bit of protection for it's size.

 

[Rainbow1910]

If they want it to deploy surface or subsurface drones, it's going to need some sort of crane? Edit, so they are looking at a pod crane and are those VLS behind the gun? If so, this ship certainly seems to have a fair bit of protection for it's size.

The modules which hold drones/other boats aboard has its own davit launching and retrieval mechanism to not require a crane.

 

[OceanBonfire]

So Australia's two tier fleet plan just more sneaky with less tabloids.

And here I was thinking we were going River Class style when we might be going more Multi Modular Patrol Corvette style. Interesting. The Euro project wants a Corvette not more than 3500 tons full load. That could easily be called a frigate tonnage. Not that I think we would go that big (still think 2000-2500 tons is probably the sweet spot depending on the on the requirements). Corvette in European classification is anything larger then a patrol boat (boat not ship) but smaller then a frigate. Given frigate tonnages are creeping up then its obvious that Corvette tonnages would also creep up.

Perhaps this is some indication of why the AOPS is going to the Antarctic. Show off the AOPS design to Chile and NZ as they have refit their warships with us previously, but also to perhaps increase that professional connection in hopes that they might want to sign onto a CMMC project.

The other thing is if its a Corvette the CMS330 may get a chance to live on past the lifetime of the frigates.

@OceanBonfire is there anything in the expected requirements that could indicate payload?

Requirements are not laid out yet.

If by 'early' you mean completely unfunded, not in the DND future investment plan, and not on the NSS radar then yes, it's early. That's about 20 years out, and I can't see it actually happening as the GoC sees AOPs doing that role.

It's "funded" but not officially in the BP, however, before pre-ID/OA phase.

 

[suffolkowner]

How do we figure Ontario Shipyards involvement? Do they plan on keeping it under 1000 tonnes? Cant imagine Davie, Seaspan and Irving liking that

 

[dapaterson]

It's "funded" but not officially in the BP, however, before pre-ID/OA phase.

If it is not in the investment plan then it is not funded.

 

[Underway]

If it is not in the investment plan then it is not funded.

True, but the new sub program started the exact same way. When the gov't decided they wanted subs the RCN office had already some research done.

 

[dapaterson]

True, but the new sub program started the exact same way. When the gov't decided they wanted subs the RCN office had already some research done.

Also not funded.

 

[STONEY]

Does not the size of this vessel not require it to be built by Irving under national shipbuilding agreement.

 

[Macswest]

Neat looking ship. Where are the funnel uptakes or am I missing something obvious?

 

[Swampbuggy]

Makes me wonder if someone at VARD thinks/heard/hopes that the CSC program doesn’t go the distance and gets capped at a much lower number of units. Maybe they’re positioning Flight II as a sort of “Type 31-esque” solution, should that situation come to pass. I’m sure they’d push the lower personnel requirements on any open ears they could.

 

[Rainbow1910]

How do we figure Ontario Shipyards involvement? Do they plan on keeping it under 1000 tonnes? Cant imagine Davie, Seaspan and Irving liking that

Awarded to Irving and sub-contracted out to Ontario Shipyards?

Neat looking ship. Where are the funnel uptakes or am I missing something obvious?

Exhaust is at the waterline, its the black circles. Not entirely uncommon on smaller vessels.

Makes me wonder if someone at VARD thinks/heard/hopes that the CSC program doesn’t go the distance and gets capped at a much lower number of units. Maybe they’re positioning Flight II as a sort of “Type 31-esque” solution, should that situation come to pass. I’m sure they’d push the lower personnel requirements on any open ears they could.

Given how important the CSC program is to Irving and the RCN, I maintain that it will not be cut with regards to ship numbers. I expect this modification is in response to scuttlebutt around what the RCN wants from the MCDV replacement as times rolls along. It's obvious that a more militarized combatant is likely what they are looking at now if Vard did all of this.

 

[Macswest]

Awarded to Irving and sub-contracted out to Ontario Shipyards?


Exhaust is at the waterline, its the black circles. Not entirely uncommon on smaller vessels.


Given how important the CSC program is to Irving and the RCN, I maintain that it will not be cut with regards to ship numbers. I expect this modification is in response to scuttlebutt around what the RCN wants from the MCDV replacement as times rolls along. It's obvious that a more militarized combatant is likely what they are looking at now if Vard did all of this.

Thanks Rainbow1910, learned something new about ship exhausts…makes sense

 

[suffolkowner]

This Vard Vigilance proposal doesnt quite seem to be the cheap Kingston replacement anymore though does it?

 

[DBNSG]

This Vard Vigilance proposal doesnt quite seem to be the cheap Kingston replacement anymore though does it?

No but it just might be that modern Flower class for the possible kinetic future. Make them cheap enough to be built inland and quickly.

 

[Kirkhill]

This Vard Vigilance proposal doesnt quite seem to be the cheap Kingston replacement anymore though does it?

Doesn't have to be expensive.

The Container Deck could be the entire missile array. 4x 40 footers or 8x 20 footers...

Lots of options.

6x 4 NSMs
4x 4 VLS cells with 16x Tomahawks, or 16x Standards, or 16x NSM/JSMs, or 16x ASROCs, or 64x ESSMs, or 64x CAMMs, or 64x Hellfire/Brimstone/JAGMs,
8x 60 SkyKnight SAMs (60x SkyKnights in each 20ft container with 8 containers on deck).

Swappable with all sorts of other containers.