Liberal Minority Government 2021 - ????

[QV]

Those are all things they can get or do if they want. Why would a liberal government accelerate that? Seems to me that a western friendly CPC government would be in a better position to enable that.

Disagree. If there is a western friendly government there would be less discontent with the Federal power, less need for enacting those measures. A hostile Trudeau government will continue to incentivize (and maybe accelerate) these processes.

 

[Remius]

Disagree. If there is a western friendly government there would be less discontent with the Federal power, less need for enacting those measures. A hostile Trudeau government will continue to incentivize (and maybe accelerate) these processes.

Sure but having their own police force, pension plan etc etc is not contingent on any party affiliation as QC has shown.

Unless it’s about having a fit over their relationship with the fed gvt in power. If you want to see western Canada be like QC then it should come from a serious point of view and not one of “we should have a provincial police force because eff Trudeau”.

 

[QV]

Sure but having their own police force, pension plan etc etc is not contingent on any party affiliation as QC has shown.

Unless it’s about having a fit over their relationship with the fed gvt in power. If you want to see western Canada be like QC then it should come from a serious point of view and not one of “we should have a provincial police force because eff Trudeau”.

Those are just part of the road map. Surely you don't suggest only Quebec has a serious point of view.

Even Saskatchewan wants to emulate Quebec...: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/sask-moe-nation-quebec-1.6246899

Quebecers should be flattered!

 

[Halifax Tar]

Those are just part of the road map. Surely you don't suggest only Quebec has a serious point of view.

Even Saskatchewan wants to emulate Quebec...: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/sask-moe-nation-quebec-1.6246899

Quebecers should be flattered!

That article sizes it up.

The irony here is in our clamoring to appease Que and stall separatists movements we're establishing a precedence and alienating other areas of the country while adding steam to their separation and pro-autonomy movements.

We cannot say Que is the only separate and distinct culture in Canada, its simply false.

 

[Remius]

Those are just part of the road map. Surely you don't suggest only Quebec has a serious point of view.

Even Saskatchewan wants to emulate Quebec...: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/sask-moe-nation-quebec-1.6246899

Quebecers should be flattered!

If it’s coming from a position of wanting more provincial indépendance on handling their own affairs sure. But if it flip flops because the LPC is in power vice the CPC then it’s not in good faith nor is it politically mature.

Quebec seeks more power and independance based on what it feels is best for them regardless of who is in power federally and have been consistant in trying to achieve that.

If Alberta or Saskatchewan only flirts with it when the LPC is in power then it can’t really be taken seriously.

Which is why a CPC western friendly government would be more inclined to negotiate and be more beneficial to get to that goal. Your premise is based on protest politics with partisanship at its root.

 

[Halifax Tar]

If it’s coming from a position of wanting more provincial indépendance on handling their own affairs sure. But if it flip flops because the LPC is in power vice the CPC then it’s not in good faith nor is it politically mature.

Quebec seeks more power and independance based on what it feels is best for them regardless of who is in power federally and have been consistant in trying to achieve that.

If Alberta or Saskatchewan only flirts with it when the LPC is in power then it can’t really be taken seriously.

Which is why a CPC western friendly government would be more inclined to negotiate and be more beneficial to get to that goal. Your premise is based on protest politics with partisanship at its root.

Its perfectly reasonable that the secessionist movements in Alberta would grow when there is a government that is unable to move programs forward that would support their economy.

If we had a Fed Gov that would put Que in a corner with its soother and do what's best for the whole of the country this would be a none issue.

Que only looks out for Que and can force the rest of the country to bend to its wishes. Energy East is the perfect example. Do you think is Sask, Man, Ont or NB had issues they would be playacted too ? I highly doubt it. This is simple appeasement of the proverbial screaming child.

 

[Remius]

Its perfectly reasonable that the secessionist movements in Alberta would grow when there is a government that is unable to move programs forward that would support their economy.

If we had a Fed Gov that would put Que in a corner with its soother and do what's best for the whole of the country this would be a none issue.

Que only looks out for Que and can force the rest of the country to bend to its wishes. Energy East is the perfect example. Do you think is Sask, Man, Ont or NB had issues they would be playacted too ? I highly doubt it. This is simple appeasement of the proverbial screaming child.

QV made it a point to remark he wasn’t talking about secession. Just more power to the provinces. Things they can certainly do. If they want a provincial force, pension plan, income tax collection etc etc they can do it if they want.

The question is what can’t they do that Quebec is doing? It’s all within their ability to make it happen if they want to.

A CPC fed government friendly to the west would certainly be a better enabler if they are serious about it.

 

[brihard]

They have a provincial police service, collect their income taxes, have the QPP... I'd like the western provinces to go down those roads.

I did say I would like to see the west have the same level of autonomy as Quebec. I did not say: "split", "separate", "have powers only Quebec has".

You and Lumber are overzealous in your inferences.

I can’t speak for Lumber, but I drew no such inference. It was clear from what you had already said that you weren’t talking about outright separation or secession; you explicitly noted “I didn’t say split”, plus I know that as a CAF member who clearly likes Alberta, separation would be self defeating. I merely asked what you’d like to see happen.

As for the things you said, Alberta could do them if it wanted. It’s a matter of funding and will. Initial steps are already happening on the possibility of a provincial police force, although if that happens it’ll be chock full of Mounties anyway for the first couple decades.

I accept what you’re saying that federal
governments perceived as less accommodating to the west are likely to lead to a bit more pressure on these items. DoesnMt mean any given one idea or another will be good ideas, but I’m fine with Alberta trying to go it alone in any way Quebec has.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Using Quebec as a comparison for interface in the federation is difficult if you don't acknowledge the difference between common law and civil law. There is a reason that all contest etc have a caveat for QC; their foundation for provincial laws is fundamentally different from the rest of Canada.

You can blame Britain for allowing Qc to keep French civil law after the defeat at the Plains of Abraham I guess, vice forcing them to adopt common law, but it means their relationship with the federal government is different in that their entire provincial legal system is different.

 

[TacticalTea]

Using Quebec as a comparison for interface in the federation is difficult if you don't acknowledge the difference between common law and civil law. There is a reason that all contest etc have a caveat for QC; their foundation for provincial laws is fundamentally different from the rest of Canada.

You can blame Britain for allowing Qc to keep French civil law after the defeat at the Plains of Abraham I guess, vice forcing them to adopt common law, but it means their relationship with the federal government is different in that their entire provincial legal system is different.

Can't really blame Britain, and can't really ''force'' Quebec to do much either.

It is different because it is willing to leave (and back during the empire, was willing to revolt) if absolutely necessary, and take Canadianism with it.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Can't really blame Britain, and can't really ''force'' Quebec to do much either.

It is different because it is willing to leave (and back during the empire, was willing to revolt) if absolutely necessary, and take Canadianism with it.

Only if they left their portion of it behind, and somehow ignoring the First Nation agreements are with the Crown, not QC, so a provincial vote to separate doesn't have any jurisdiction over that.

In general, the First Nation agreements being separate from Confederation means that any province leaving Canada would be a strangely riddled puzzle piece.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Only if they left their portion of it behind, and somehow ignoring the First Nation agreements are with the Crown, not QC, so a provincial vote to separate doesn't have any jurisdiction over that.

In general, the First Nation agreements being separate from Confederation means that any province leaving Canada would be a strangely riddled puzzle piece.

Same thing with the republican factions within Canada that want to ditch the monarchy. The AFN had already said that any removal of the Crown from "Canada" will see a dissolution of any treaties or agreements.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Same thing with the republican factions within Canada that want to ditch the monarchy. The AFN had already said that any removal of the Crown from "Canada" will see a dissolution of any treaties or agreements.

Honestly don't see the value in going towards a republic; the Crown has no actual authority in practice, and even just re-writing the constitution to go towards it would be a nightmare. I think the Parliament setup works reasonably well, and I don't see the value of adding a head of state with real authority to complicate things. The AFN is just another very good reason to ride the status quo, and if we ever get to the point where we have the time/energy to fix all of that I'm assuming it's either after achieving world peace and equality, or things have gone more Mad Max.

 

[RangerRay]

The last time British Columbia seriously considered bringing back the BCPP was under the Tory-friendly Liberals. They decided against it because $$$.

Fast forward a couple of years and Liberal-friendly Mayor of Surrey Doug McCallum pushed through a municipal force to replace the RCMP in spite of vocal opposition and ever increasing costs to taxpayers.

So I don’t buy fed Liberals = more provincial/local policing in Tory-friendly jurisdictions.

 

[Kirkhill]

Parfois, pour moi, on a des problemes parcitte.

Notre Premier Ministre ne sembles pas comme un grand ami d'Alberta, meme les Anglos.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2960960140850930

 

[Jarnhamar]

The AFN had already said that any removal of the Crown from "Canada" will see a dissolution of any treaties or agreements.

That would suck for them.

 

[brihard]

An amendment to the office of the Monarch in the Constitution Act requires an identical bill to be passed by both Houses of Parliament and all ten Provincial legislatures.

Any attempt to reopen the Constitution so broadly would inevitably logjam; there’s no way we could rewrite the absolute underpinnings of our division of political power without several provinces holding the process hostage to some want or another. And it would only take a single provincial legislature to “nope” the whole thing. I see there being no realistic prospect of the ten provinces plus both Houses of Parliament being able to reach an accord that would see the Canadian monarchy cease.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Everyone has a price. Just have to meet it.

 

[Kilted]

An amendment to the office of the Monarch in the Constitution Act requires an identical bill to be passed by both Houses of Parliament and all ten Provincial legislatures.

Any attempt to reopen the Constitution so broadly would inevitably logjam; there’s no way we could rewrite the absolute underpinnings of our division of political power without several provinces holding the process hostage to some want or another. And it would only take a single provincial legislature to “nope” the whole thing. I see there being no realistic prospect of the ten provinces plus both Houses of Parliament being able to reach an accord that would see the Canadian monarchy cease.

Yeah, it's basically impossible. In other news, should we start talking about the King's Coronation Medal?

 

[Lumber]

Parfois, pour moi, on a des problemes parcitte.

Notre Premier Ministre ne sembles pas comme un grand ami d'Alberta, meme les Anglos.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2960960140850930

I like him, he speaks his mind!
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