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Leadership and Non-Issue Gear

SHELLDRAKE!! said:
                 1)Should be only issued kit worn/used until end of trades training and into first unit

Why's that?

Inspections are one thing, the field another. At the infantry school they let us use wheelers nuke bags, camelbaks, danner boots, or most anything else within reason. Of course this has a lot to do with your course staff. Now that I run courses, I have no problem with my instructors or candidates using what works for them in the field... when I took my BIQ to Pet from Sudbury for a week, one of my RCR Sgt's arranged a tour of Y101, a LAV 3, and of course the Kit shop... between the 48 candidates and 12 instructors they made a lot of money on us... my RegF WO even joined the camelbak club that day... I finally picked up a stealth suit... did we "need" everything we bought? Probably not, did it help us do our jobs more effectively? I would say yes... Camelbaks especially!

And as for the Officers with more Gucci kit than the troops, I don't see this as a problem... I'm a kit monkey, but some of the troops blow me out of the water... I've seen Cpls with their own surefire vertical foregrip weaponlights! We're all paid very well IMHO, a bit of after market kit shouldn't break the bank...

 
Wow bossi, very few things I read/look at on my monitor make me laugh out loud...
 
Britney Spears wrote:  "You guys will love it when I become CDS"

You're gonna need a new photo.

Tom

 
As far as being a kit-slut, I must be in the upper 1% of all crewmen for trying out anything that makes my life more comfortable or easier. You name it, I've probably tried it. I have tried a lot of different gloves out, because I hate having cold, wet hands. The issue gloves (IMO) all suck-ass big time. The new temperate glove (the leather CADPAT) looks pretty decent, for what it's designed for (only seen it for a brief spell). Our unit is getting it issued next week, but we're going to the field, so I'm sure every pot-washer on base will get them before we do, so we'll miss out, no doubt.

I think that if the kit follows a few basic principles, it should be whatever works, works: should look at least somewhat similar to issue kit (to avoid the high-school paintball team effect), it shouldn't just be for show or total idleness (the Hi-Tech "slippers" that were issued like candy to all the people with bad backs and knees (could be the rucksack that some of the fella's were carrying around in front of them that caused the back/knee injuries) that lasted about 3.2 seconds in the field), and for operations especially, effectiveness has to be more important than Gucci-ness (ie. non-IR defeating/resistant kit).

I personally hate the types of people who think that certain traditions have to be upheld at all costs, over the safety and long-term health concerns of their soldiers. The example I am thinking of is the (former) wearing of the black-beret for crewmen at all times. I was on a winter ex when I was a young Tpr, and our Tp WO insisted we wear our beret at all times, no matter how cold it was. Or how guys had to wear the beret when they were in Somalia vs the Tilley hat. When we did Op Grizzly, our RSM grudgingly (probably because he was ordered otherwise) "let" us wear the new CAPAT wide brim hat. I used to find it odd that we had to let everybody know that we were tankers by wearing the black beret. I suppose the 40odd ton tank didn't give it away...... Thankfully, common sense has given way, and we wear the appropriate headwear at the appropriate time.

I think that if somebody wants to squander their money on expensive kit, that's their business. I think maintaining 100% conformity for the sake of everybody looking identical is a complete garrison mentality. I think boots have to be the most important thing that a soldier wears, and we are stuck with the piece of crap that is the MkIII. We are in the 21st century, and there have been many advances in regard to footwear design, so my take on the footwear issue is this: if somebody wants to spend $300 on a pair of boots, let them. As long as it follows the basic guidelines, who cares?!?!? The same people who wear 8 year old velcro closed running shoes to PT will refuse to buy the better boots available, use the MkIII's for their whole career, and then wonder why they have screwed backs and knees. Let the people who want to look after their health and bodies do so (at their own expense, or have a boot allowance). If I knew I didn't have to jump through hoops or have to justify to a MO or a SSM why I want the best Corcoran, Matterhorn, Danner, etc boots, I would go out tomorrow and buy them. But I know that somebody will be jealous that I have enough money free to do this, and whinge, and it would be back to the MkIII (just to clarify, I have worn MkIII's my whole career, with the exception of having orthotics in them, and resoled with Vibrams (one pair) and just recently, after trying to get issued a new pair to get resoled, and being told that they don't have my size, and if they did, I wouldn't get them because they are restricted for Ops only. I was then given a "chit", if you will, to go to a local outfitter, and given a choice of a few boots, and got Goretex Matterhorns. Personally, I would have gone for the Corcoran's (not authorized, however), but you can't look a gift horse in the mouth).

As for the leading by example issue, maybe I'm a piss-poor leader, and disloyal, but I think that if I have to wait for some of my soldiers to get good gear, who would rather squander their money on VLT's, cigarettes, and/or pissing it up against a wall before I can go out to get Gucci kit that makes my life easier and/or more comfortable, I guess I'm a shite example for my soldiers. But I'll have dry, blister free feet, someone useful knees, comfy hands, a dry FMP (the CADPAT CP FMP cover looks pretty lame, but it's waterproof, and if you like writing on a wet FMP, fill your boots), and be somewhat organized. I've given up on waiting for the army to provide what I consider the basics (I woulda/coulda/shoulda bought Matterhorns and a Stealth Suit when I was a young soldier, but was worried about the whims of my various SSM's who would alternately OK or veto non-issue gear depending on their moods. Though to be fair, the CTS program, for the most part, has been very good to excellent (I really like the small pack, and I'm glad I didn't buy the CP version, which pales in comparison). My only complaint is the length of time, and seemingly erratic method of issue. I realize it takes time to produce 60,000 to 100,000 (or whatever the number is) of anything, but somebody has to come up with a sensible priority of issue. 2RCR hasn't been issued the CADPAT goretex jacket, but I've seen DP1's wearing it. And when my wife went to Afghanistan (Op Apollo), they wouldn't issue her a Gerber, because it was only issue for people getting in. When she got in, it was the C5, but the brainiacs behind the counter couldn't figure out that she hadn't ever been issued one (Gerber). So she had to buy one on her own dime.

Anyway, there it is.....

Al
 
I had to give this one some thought ...
In Afghanistan, the problem I faced was this:
On two occasions, my pistol holster fell off ... one time, whilst shaking hands with a Wakil
(I felt like I was in a Peter Sellers movie, scooping up my pistol and blushing ...)
So, what to do ... ?
Some folks just jammed their nug (slang for pistol) into a magazine pouch on their tac vests.
However, in my job I sometimes had to remove my vest during meetings/negotiations for reasons of diplomacy (and, no matter how diplomatic I wanted to be ... I didn't want to be unarmed ...).
So, what to do ... ?
The issue holster simply didn't cut the mustard.
However, there were other folks from the CF who had a good piece of kit - a thigh rig.
What clinched it for me was ... leadership.
Somebody more senior than me had obtained a thigh rig.
So, I followed suit, and got one that was perfect for what I needed it to do.
I never got Gapped or Mugged, but equally ... I never got plugged ...

Now, as far as the ethics of leadership having Gucci kit ... it was a tool I needed to get my job done, and the Army-issued one was inadequate - so, I chose to get the job done.
We can argue about whether it might have made me a more attractive target for a sniper ... but then we can also argue about whether it confused "the bad people" by making them wonder why I had one of those high-speed, low-drag thigh rigs (i.e. and maybe making them think twice ...)

Do I feel bad because more junior troops could not afford a thigh rig, or because they would have been jacked up for wearing one ... well ... maybe it could also be argued that they became less of a target, if one piece of kit was such a distraction ...

I don't know.   All I know is that I never suffered an "equipment malfunction" with my thigh rig ...

P.S. (by popular demand, the specs on my thigh rig)

The Need:
Why go with a low ride? In a panic situation, a human naturally drops his hands to his thighs to draw. So, even though a belt draw is faster in a premeditated draw, your hands will naturally go to your thighs first in most gun fight situations. This leaves us needing a fast and smooth holster that will anchor itself to the thigh.

The Answer:
The Pistol Thigh Rig (PTR) is a triple retention holster secured to the stable Claw Rigc to provide a smooth, secure, versatile and comfortable holster. The stitching of the holster to the contoured Claw Rig holds the weapon securely to the thigh. This prevents the butt of the pistol from bouncing.

Universal size with adjustable thumb break for most large frame automatics (Berretta, Glock, Sig, Ruger, Smith and Wesson, etc.) on standard models. Call for availability of other models (compact, Colt .45 / Browning, H&K, revolver, etc.).

Triple retention straps include snap and Velcror straps over the hammer, and a side-lock buckle-secured strap over the back strap which can be used for extra protection or secured out of the way.

Felt lined for a smooth draw and to minimize marring of the weapon's finish.
Plastic lined shell keeps holster open for easy reholsterring and protects the weapon.

Removable pistol flap (optional with PTR) is secured by Velcro behind the grip for protection and retention while breaking brush. The retention strap routes through the front of the flap and it can be held up and out of the way by Velcro during tactical situations.

Pouch for a spare magazine, knife, or small collapsible baton.
Optional speed adapter for attachment to a belt (see Belt Hanger Adapter).

Features:
1000 Denier DuPont Cordura Plus fabric, double layered.
138 weight bonded nylon parachute harness thread.
Strength rated nylon webbing and tapes
American name brand plastic and metal fasteners (Duraflex, ITW Nexus, ACW, etc.).
VelcroTM and Rip and GripTM mil spec hook and loop fastener.
Closed cell foam.
HDPE plastic liners.
Heavy weight woven elastic.
Edges bound by double stitched nylon Type 3 seam tape
Stress points anchored by double stitching, bar tacks, and box x's.
 
It always pissed me off seeing officers wearing kit on simply exercises that we were told we weren't allowed to wear, ie JB's or desert boots etc.   We wouldn't bring them because we were told we weren't allowed to wear them and then you see an officer wearing the precise piece of kit that was forbidden.   Now I don't hang out them balloonists so I'm not sure if they get squared away later but it is a real piss off.   On a funnier note there was this officer that felt all gung ho and wore his personal flak vests to all the CO's O groups (the only pers to do so).   So the CO told him that if he wanted to wear it so bad he would wear it every were.   Meals, shitter etc.   The next O group he didn't have it with him.
 
i cant believe how much emphasis is put on kit, and not the individual soldier. when i was in the RCR there was one guy in particular who was always buying anything he could get his hands on out of all the US kit mags, but he just happened to be one of the worst 'soldiers' in the coy. focus more on your personal skills, that will get you a million times farther then some new gloves or vibrum desert boots.
  of course it would be nice if our government bought us all sorts of new stuff, but to be honest i was more than happy with the gear i had when i was in. if you really think you are that hard done by, come to Baghdad and see what the iraq NG have to work with, and they are in a combat zone !
 
I don't really have a problem with the kit I am issued ( besides maybe boots ). I have a problem with the fact that some of it is next to impossible to get issued. When I was issued my 9mm in Afghanistan I was told that there were no holsters available!. So if I go to the Brit or Italian camp and buy my own I risk getting Gapped or Mugged but the option is to stuff it into a mag puch on my already "mag-challenged" tac vest. In the end I bought my own ( better to ask forgivness ect...) but it left a bad taste.  :salute:
 
People buy kit for a number of reasons.
1.  LCF
2.  Make their job easier
3.  Be as comfortable as possible
4.  Potentially life saving

I'm sure there are more and we all know people that get kit for all the above but besides the first reason all the others make sense.  If you need to reload your mags because you can only carry five this may prove quite dangerous especially if your in a fire fight or taking a house.  People buy all kinds of new clothing that is far better in terms of quality and the job its designed to too (ie keep warm, keep cool).  Also improvements in hydration are having a slow time making there way into the CF.  Many people buy GPS' because there aren't enough in the system and they want to know where they are.  I could go on but I think you get my point.  People buy kit to improve their abilities as well as look good.
 
You could also say "Makes them more effective".

If someone buys a rig that gives them the ability to carry 12 mags at the ready instead of 4 (along with the other important stuff), wouldn't they be doing the right thing?

We (rightfully) complain that the proposed POS MGS has an extremely limited carrying capacity for rounds - we should be equally critical of limitations that kit may have on the Infantry soldier to do his job.
 
1)Should be only issued kit worn/used until end of trades training and into first unit


  The reason I believe in this is, where else will a soldier learn the value of uniformity.One could ask why were there morning inspections on QL6A course.The candidates are wearing the rank of seargent and yet they all were subject to morning inspection.

  I don't think its too much to ask that up to being trades qualified, everyone follows the same gameplan.Otherwise I believe there will be discipline problems and possibly questioning of most orders throughout ones career.
 
SHELLDRAKE!! said:
1)Should be only issued kit worn/used until end of trades training and into first unit

I agree fully there - troops learning the basics have no real clue about kit - uniformity and attention to detail from that uniformity goes alogn way to makign them into soliders (as well as having to solider with shitty kit  ;D )
 
Oh, I don't think anyone will disagree with you, Shelldrake - most "kit-sluts" argue that soldiers should figure out how well the issue stuff works for them before forking out cash for aftermarket gear.

As well, uniformity has its place in recruit and leadership training - I see no arguement against enforcing it in the schools.
 
I agree, while on course.  But deployed or on ex, as long at it looks Canadian, and isn't a VAST departure from the norm, then who cares.  I don't think guys in the field or on ex are going to be looked upon too far past the color of ones uniform (ie don't have a woodland pattern or MARPAT bag or boonie with a CADPAT uniform).
 
Who cares if it is MARPAT, Coyote Brown, or Woodland as long as it works...

 
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