Leadership and Non-Issue Gear

[Infanteer]

(i.e. those with a little disposable income get to be comfortable and those without have to suffer).

Hey, I was a Private and I was able to spend money on kit to play with (being a self-professed kit-slut).  Considering how well ALL Canadian soldiers are renumerated and the average cost of a little piece of snivel kit, I'm not sure this would ever be a real concern.  Most kit out there isn't a "break the bank" affair.

I accept the argument that commanders need to be alert etc., but from what I have seen/read, commanders who share the hardships of their soldiers are often the most respected and admired while those who put their comforts above that of their soldiers are universally reviled.

I just finished reading Rick Atkinson's In the Company of Soldiers; he was embedded with the General Commanding of 101st Airborne (Air Assault).  Interesting book as it was a "fly-on-the-wall" look at a modern division HQ operating in a war.  Sure, in a large formation, the division headquarters is going to be fairly static and established, so I could see the living arrangements slightly above Spartan, but my ire was directed more towards those who insist on a "tactical" setup and then breakout the tents and the gen-sets.... :threat:

Tactical should mean tactical.   No point going light and stealthy if you are going to make a large noisy footprint with a company or battalion command element....

Cheers,
Infanteer

 

[Mortar guy]

Mortar Boy? MORTAR BOY? Who you callin' boy!?


Actually, I kinda like the name. Has a superhero sidekick ring to it. Who's sidekick would I be? Artillery Man?

;D

MG

 

[KevinB]

Long gone are the days of ol BGen Cox showing up (in his gortex) and ordering troops out of non issue kit.

  Most (Patrica) officers and NCO's are in working as hard or harder as the troops -- for examply at the BC Fires - Col Vida woudl be out with the troops of the different companies doing the job on his hands and knees beside everyone - I dont think anyone could keep his pace. 

Class differential between officers and men are long gone - and the arguments for the "white glove" treatment have faded (in most cases).


I don't agree with the kit assesment - but I am a kit slut and I will spend huge $ on kit trying to find a better mousetrap - why - cause I am lazy and would rather the kit work with me than against me.
  That said we are far away from the time in 1997 when we humped up the hills in Ca. at the USMC Mountain Warfare Training Center - in the old parka and crap. 

 

[Pte. Bloggins]

my ire was directed more towards those who insist on a "tactical" setup and then breakout the tents and the gen-sets.... :threat:

Whenever we're out supporting a tactical setup, we always bring along a generator (actually called "tactical quiet": read the label.) It's main purpose is powering our (and the entire CP's) radios, it also happens to be frequently used to power such creature comforts as coffee makers and heaters.

In a real-life situation, the generator's supposed to be dug-in, I've never seen it done though.

 

[Infanteer]

Hey, you Jimmy's need the gen-set to do your job; the tankers got it the same with the vehicles - I'm directing my rant against those who feel that rank (as opposed to requirements, as is your case) is some sort of entitlement to an easy go in the field.  As Kevin said, that mentality is almost non-existent today (thank goodness).

 

[RCA]

My experiance is that the snr leadership is less interested in the gucchi kit and make do with whats issuesd (more or less).

As to them having more comfortable digs. The more senoir you get the less sleep you tend to get because of the planning process. Yes the grunts stand gurad etc. But when there down, unless something unusal going on, they are down. More on this later.

 

[KevinB]

As Kevin said, that mentality is almost non-existent today (thank goodness).

In fact the one thing I have seen is an eager OC or SgtMaj set up mod tent and cots for the CO's arrival and have the CO go WTF? I dont need this...

 

[Infanteer]

As to them having more comfortable digs. The more senoir you get the less sleep you tend to get because of the planning process. Yes the grunts stand gurad etc. But when there down, unless something unusal going on, they are down. More on this later.

Oh, I don't doubt that at all RCA.   I fully remember the Warrant and the Platoon Commander making rounds throughout the night in between O groups and planning - and this was only at the platoon level.   I imagine more gets piled on the higher you go.   However (and I'm sure you will agree with me) everybody performs a vital role and no one should have privledges based soley upon rank (drag the heater up for the Colonel!) - the best anecdote of this I ever read was a CO in Vietnam who made a soldier carry around a clunky and dangerous flamethrower so he could clear away the ants for the officers CP....

If some people disagree with this, fine by me - as I said earlier it is just something I feel strongly about.

 

[Canadian Sig]

Mortar Boy? MORTAR BOY? Who you callin' boy!?


Actually, I kinda like the name. Has a superhero sidekick ring to it. Who's sidekick would I be? Artillery Man?

;D

MG

Aww man and I just put in for a posting to RCR..lol. Seriously' sorry Mortar Guy. 

 

[Britney Spears]

The obvious solution, gathered from all the comments here, seems quite clear.

1) Buy a nice patrol pack
2) Load it up to the tits with 7.62mm
3) Find a troop to carry your pack. Have the troops take turns carry it.

That way, the pte's get to carry gucci kit, the ammo gets carried, and since you selflessly gave up your own aftermarket kit to make it a little easier for your soldiers, your penchant for leadership will be readily apparent. Promotion will be inevitable.

You guys will love it when I become CDS.

 

[1feral1]

I think you guys are too reliant on toys. Whenever I see a cad pat bag walking around an airport or the base ( in civvies mind you) I think this guy is too wrapped up in his job, or hey look at the militia guy. In my day we would go into the field with as little as possible. no need for FMP's with nice covers. No need for GPS. Hell as long as the troop Comdr and troop Wo knew our posn, that was all that was needed. Although at the time we did buy the necessities of life. American Rain Gear and a cave blanket (poncho liner) everything else was considered useless weight.

:

I don't know who you are, or how much TI you have, but sometimes more often than not, the issue stuff is inadequate, and falls short of the soldier's real needs. I have 'many toys' as you seem to think they are, and I don't have 'em for the LCF either.

 

[NATO Boy]

Perhaps I'm not the only one thinking this, but what the heck...

What was one of the first things we as soldiers we told (in general) after becoming qualified soldiers?

One example, we are "Trained" Soldiers now. We have to "know" ourselves and be self-reliant. This includes the suitable use of kit (be it issued or not.)

Mind you, this isn't geared at leadership but rather "everyone." If Pte Newbie realizes he can haul ammo for his C6 a lot better with an after-market patrol bag, he has the right to use it (since his job requires it.) If the same Pte. Newbie finds himself in a CAS EVAC team and wants to use a 3 POINT sling so he can keep a better grip on his C7 and a stretcher, he has the right to that too. If a Sect COMD finds it more efficient to use GPS on a patrol, he has the right to use it (given he does so with discipline.) If the same Sect COMD wants to carry extra kit in a patrol bag (rather than empty out his ruck just for use on one patrol,) he has that right.

With that said, there's a flipside. If there's no real need for you to use alternative kit, chances are you'll be informed by C of C (a la CSM or RSM.) For example, if Pte Newbie wants a better LBV so he can carry 16 mags (but won't need to since he's not going on tour anytime soon) he doesn't have that luxury. If Course Staff are in the field with their candidates and want to use kit that the candidates don't have access to (ie Camelbaks,) the Course Staff can't use it to their advantage (common motto, do only unto them what you do unto yourself; this also plays into the "lead by example" argument that has come up.)

If your unit enforces the use of after-market kit by "all" ranks, there's no reason to be "nay-sayin" against the leadership. As 2IC of my section, I use a patrol bag, a camelbak, and a 3 point sling regularly; the rest of my section takes advantage of this and does the same (some have better kit than I do) so they can operate at the same level.

My 2/200 of a Twoonie...

 

[SHELLDRAKE!!]

My opinion:
                1)Should be only issued kit worn/used until end of trades training and into first unit

                2)If gucci kit is auth by RSM then it should apply to all ranks

                3)Only issued gear should be used when training with foreign forces or when under media
                    coverage so we dont look like a junior high paintball team.

                4)I believe in the concept of wear what you want but cover it with issued kit.

I dont believe the issued equipment in this day and age is so bad that we need to buy our own kit to replace it (except maybee the rain gear) and the few items that do need replacing are usually so small that their use would not affect the overall uniformity of our equipment.

my buck n a half

 

[Infanteer]

I think the 3PPCLI BG policy on OP Apollo (if it looks Canadian, wear it) has proven to be successful and fair to the troops.

 

[Britney Spears]

But we didn't have the cool Tactical Vests and stuff back then. Now that the army has bestowed TVs upon you, why do you still need after market webbing? With all of our new and (in theory)improved kit do we still need that kind of policy?

As an aside, good thing they rushed the TV issue to the whole army in such record time, while the really useful stuff, like AUSCAM 100rd C9 bags, sit in some forgotten corner.

 

[KevinB]

                 3)Only issued gear should be used when training with foreign forces or when under media
                    coverage so we dont look like a junior high paintball team.

                 4)I believe in the concept of wear what you want but cover it with issued kit.

:  - So basically you are an issue only guy.

Maybe that works on the gun line...

 

[TCBF]

"I think the 3PPCLI BG policy on OP Apollo (if it looks Canadian, wear it) has proven to be successful and fair to the troops."

It was the right policy at the time.

Good thing no body whined about the Coyote OPs and Fire Positions with all of the camnets, sandbags, plywood, posts, and misc stuff we liberated from the US Army/USMC to make our positions less vis and better protected. Anyone complaining about all of the MREs we ate?  That wasn't Canadian either, nor was the fully Halal/Kosher "Mom's Own Meals" .  I suppose I should be charged for taking USAF/Malasia Airlines aircraft on the "Around the world in six months OP APOLLO tour".

My first cup of real coffee in Kandahar was US Army issue.  Good on them.

We asked if the USMC LAV 25s had left any main gun ammo behind, as ours was a bit "slow" in arriving.  They didn't, and my Ptl was on the line for a few days without main gun ammo.  No big deal.

Tom

 

[NATO Boy]

no  :bullet: :bullet: :bullet: :bullet: :bullet: :bullet: = ouch 

 

[Britney Spears]

Bloody hell, those things -> :bullet: are supposed to be BULLETS?


I just realized that now, I always thought they were something else......

 

[Spartan]

I'm just curious as to why it is a per unit ideology/policy versus an army ideology/policy wrt issue/nonissue kit. Doesn't that make us look more of a ragtag group when one unit has bells and whistles, the next has only issue? If it works well, and has a Canadian motif, and fits all milspec requirements, then why not.