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I've been looking around the forum, reading things, as the Military has been a great interest for me for many years. I have found great heaps of information about combat units (infantry, armour, artillery and the like) but I don't seem to be lucky in finding much details about Intelligence officers.
All I know is that one should have a degree in Geography, Economics or International Studies, with a Master's preferable. All IO's go through Basic Officers Training and a few other training courses. And then specialty training.
What I want to know is that since this isn't a combat rank, what are the medical requirements, specifically eyesight. And am I correct to assume that there are subdivisions within the category of "Intelligence officer", as in some individuals might be assigned to tasks where they are deemed better, such as Person A being assigned Field Work and Person B serving as an analyst.
I hope I've posted this in the correct forum. I look forward to hearing your answers.
All I know is that one should have a degree in Geography, Economics or International Studies, with a Master's preferable. All IO's go through Basic Officers Training and a few other training courses. And then specialty training.
What I want to know is that since this isn't a combat rank, what are the medical requirements, specifically eyesight. And am I correct to assume that there are subdivisions within the category of "Intelligence officer", as in some individuals might be assigned to tasks where they are deemed better, such as Person A being assigned Field Work and Person B serving as an analyst.
I hope I've posted this in the correct forum. I look forward to hearing your answers.
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Numerwiz said:
You may find some here.
"I want to be Int" Mega-thread:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/12858.0
Numerwiz said:
"Minimum Medical Standards for Officers/Non-Commissioned":
http://www.forces.gc.ca/health-sante/pd/CFP-PFC-154/AN-E-eng.asp
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The medical requirements do not sub divide. It is the same for all Int Os. However, Int O medical requirements are lower than the combat arms in vision (V), geographic(G), and operational (O) categories.
An unofficial explanation of these would be. With lower numbers being a higher standard. For combat arms your categories would need to be V3,G2,02. For Int O is is V4,G3,O3.
Essentially
Combat arms
V3 - have good vision already, or be able to be corrected
G2 - be able to be away form medical specialist for at least 1 year
O2 - have no physical limitations (do physically demanding work)
Int O
V4 - up to 6/60, but your vision can be corrected.
G3 - as long as you can spend at least 6 months away from medical specialist treatment
O3 - you can do a job physically harder than desk duties, but don't necessarily have to. More importantly, you are not limited to a desk.
Once again, a very vague and unofficial answer to your question.
An unofficial explanation of these would be. With lower numbers being a higher standard. For combat arms your categories would need to be V3,G2,02. For Int O is is V4,G3,O3.
Essentially
Combat arms
V3 - have good vision already, or be able to be corrected
G2 - be able to be away form medical specialist for at least 1 year
O2 - have no physical limitations (do physically demanding work)
Int O
V4 - up to 6/60, but your vision can be corrected.
G3 - as long as you can spend at least 6 months away from medical specialist treatment
O3 - you can do a job physically harder than desk duties, but don't necessarily have to. More importantly, you are not limited to a desk.
Once again, a very vague and unofficial answer to your question.
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Many would also argue that there's more than just 'a few' questions about Intelligence Officers 
Hey guys, I am currently finishing my second year at university (Major: Political Science Minor:Journalism) and and considering joining the C.F and specifically the intelligence officer trade. I was wondering if anyone could provide me with any advice on the best path towards this potential career are and the steps I can be currently taking to pursue it.
Cheers,
Cheers,
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Jack-44M said:
Well, as stated many times before this post - get some experience in the combat arms. Maybe join the reserves while still going to school. I do not know how easy it is to OT from InfO to IntO but that is a possibility. It may seem really pertinant to you that there were 20x IED attacks spread out across the city, but you neglect to care about the operational AA battery 5km outside the city. As a person getting the Int, yes, the IED attacks tell me that there is likely a bomb cell in the area, but the AA means my medilift could be endangered. Being in the combat arms can show you what is important or cared about by the audeience that gets the Int. (I am not saying that it definitely will be the case where you gain unlimited enlightenment on what matters and what doesn't, but you -may- learn aspects that are important like slowing down and maintaining an objective view rather than spinning)
Intelligence is simply not regurgitating information - which is simply reporting. I am not judging your minor nor do I have much experience dealing with it, but I envision that journalism is basically like 'telling what is going on' which anyone can do. While procducing intelligence through the Intelligence process, you are still telling what is happening but you have to determine -why - you are telling it. Just like the news world is now, you will be bombarded with tonnes of info about everything. Intelligence is having the ability to pick through that information and pull out what is needed. In no way is being an InO/IntOp the 'going out behind enemy lines and pulling the casette from the hidden voice recorder in the enemy's bunker' sort of deal. You will never even be embedded in a patrol and gather your Int first hand as you likely will always be in a room at a computer. Before anyone here says 'But what about...?' I will re-affirm that there are some gucci tasks/courses/roles you can do in the trade but only a small percentage of people get chosen for it and you primarily should be okay with what your job regularily should do on a day-to-day basis. I know many troops in the combat arms that joined to goto war, throw grenades and shoot at enemies with AKs and be the elite super-secret-ninja-JTF-sniper squirrel that they saw in Hollywood. Once they got into the job, it was nothing like that and they are now releasing. Always ask yourself 'Am I fine with doing the non-war, lowspeed, day-to-day tasks my trade is going to offer?' and if not, find a different trade.
Being a perspective IntO, you will imediately be shoved into a leadership role. You will have trained IntOps feeding you their Intelligence assessments and you report to your highers from there. You get directives pushed on down to you from higher as to what information needs to be collected and your IntOps direct patrols to gather this info or they extrapolate that info from the normal reports that are gathered in from patrols. A good real life analogy of this is you are immediately pt as the editor of a newspaper and your reporters are the IntOps. Might sound like a sweet carreer course and all, like many officer trades (on paper), but there are things to consider before throwing in your app. I am not an officer but I am sure that there are many threads of 'What it's like to be an officer vs NCM' on here. What I have gathered on most officer trades in the military with an NCM couterpart is that as the officer, you likely will be doing less of the hands on stuff and more of the managerial/paperwork/administrative side of the house.
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//Disclaimer, I've never been, worked as, nor had any experience with intelligence//
I have always thought of intelligence like a television show called "Elementary" where inference by way of using facts leads to a conclusion of sorts. Then a lot like a show called "Criminal minds" where that inference is put into a workable set of objectives and pushed to the "end users".
Sorry if you don't know these shows and yes I understand they are "make believe".
I have always thought of intelligence like a television show called "Elementary" where inference by way of using facts leads to a conclusion of sorts. Then a lot like a show called "Criminal minds" where that inference is put into a workable set of objectives and pushed to the "end users".
Sorry if you don't know these shows and yes I understand they are "make believe".
OldSolduer
Army.ca Relic
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Intelligence is derived from facts - and there is an intelligence cycle as well.
Information is not intelligence. Intelligence is, like Ghost says, is what is likely to happen given the information and the time to analyze it and make it useful.
Information is not intelligence. Intelligence is, like Ghost says, is what is likely to happen given the information and the time to analyze it and make it useful.
GhostofJacK said:
I would have to disagree with this statement. I have known several Int Ops that have been embedded on patrols/operations in both Kandahar and Kabul over the last 10 years.
It depends on what rotation you where on, how the Int Staffs were used within that rotation and how well the Int Ops were integrated into their attached unit or headquarters.
However in general most Int Ops will remain behind the wire in secure locations working on a computer for hours on end.
I know several Squadron and Company Commanders that had requested Int Ops be presence at key leader engagements or other key events in order to collect that first hand information/intelligence.
It is my opinion that Int Ops and Int Os should have front line experience in every operation in order to build creditability with the combat arms types. Maybe that is a discussion for another thread.
Edit:
I agree with everything thing else that you have stated.
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Webgear said:
Okay, yes, I stand corrected on this. Int Ops do go out in patrols, occasionally, upon request. When I started writing that sentence, I was envisioning the Hollywood 'Bourne Indentity/Supremacy/etc' or how the CIA is depicted frequently - an IntO/Op just won't do that. They won't even be sneaking behind the lines during an Oka Crisis-like scenario. At the same time, in tours from 05-09 in the Gan, I know some IntOps that went outside the wire and some that didn't. I even know some TIOC members who are infantry and never left the wire for the whole tour. I do believe that most of the hands-on stuff (ie being embedded with a patrol) would be done by an IntOp while and IntO would be present for higher meetings like (hypothetically) ISAF and all the provincial leaders.
And as I said, which I'll reiterate to future CF members reading this thread, going out of the wire is not the norm and reserved for special occasions/people. Before entering this job, you should be fine with what and IntO/Op does on a regular basis.
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Jack-44M said:
Having an IT/IM background will likely be helpful. You will be managing databases and sharepoints that the troops will be looking to for int. Some would say that we are poor at this and some of our databases would be considered information soup. Figuring out ways to make our intelligence tools more efficient and effective would certainly be welcomed.
Enter, stage right, an IntOp with some general QnA. Ghost is generally spot on with info. If there are specific questions not covered under this blanket, by all means ask.
Q: I want to be an intel guy!
A: Intel is an American term. Int as a trade has two main paths: officer (“IntO”) and NCM (“IntOp”, Intelligence Operator). Both have their own quirks. Those choosing the officer path generally do not need a background in any other military trade, as they spend about 4 years (give or take) learning how to play military. NCM (reg) is OT or CT only, as there needs to be some level of experience. No joining off the street (reserves is different, however I have no experience with that).
Q: Do I have to be combat arms first?
A: No, but it does help. Individuals who join the trade from a non Combat Arms trade sometimes struggle a little more with doctrine, having not really delved deep into the basics of how section/platoon/company/combat team attacks work. Again, this isn’t a 100% struggle for non combat arms folk, as there are plenty of combat arms transferees who struggle with it as well. Experience helps.
Q: Do you do James Bond/Jason Bourne stuff?
A: No.
Q: Do you do domestic operations?
A: Loaded question. Yes, Int pers deploy to domestic operations (fires, floods, Olympics, political summits), however CAF Int pers are NOT ALLOWED by law to collect information on Canadian citizens. That role falls to CSIS (for national security threats) and the RCMP (for criminal threats)
Q: What specialties can Int pers pursue?
A: HUMINT (for which any CAF member can undergo selection), Counter Int (CI, again, selection), Interrogator (selection), Imagery Analysis, Electronic Warfare Analyst. Most of these can be done by both NCM and Officer. These are not handed out willy nilly, again most is selection or merit based.
Q: Do Int guys go outside the wire?
A: Yes. Again, this is where having a preference for combat arms applies. A former infantryman is more likely to conduct a foot patrol than the former cook.
Q: What are the hours?
A: In garrison, the usual 0730-1600. In the field, expect 12-20 hour days in a mod tent behind a toughbook.
Q: What are the general Int jobs? Do I get to pick and choose?
A: The new Int was has effectively gotten rid of old job titles such as “logger” and “plotter” in favour of maintaining Collator and Analyst. Collators receive information from a variety of sources and agencies, save it in hard and/or soft copy and ensure that the Analysts receive pertinent info. Analysts take said information and use it to build a clear (as much as possible) picture of what is happening and what may happen next (based on fact, doctrine, and patterns). That’s as specific as I’ll give here. As for “pick and choose”, as much as I’d love to say yes, its no. Your CoC will assign you to a job based on your personal ability. Some people are really good at collating. Some are really good at Analysis. Some of the aforementioned skills either can’t be taught or the teaching doesn’t stick.
Q: Do IntOps have to do PLQ? Which one?
A: Yes, PLQ Land (or whatever the new name for it is) regardless of your element. Sorry Air Force, expect to get dirty.
Q: Non Int branch people do Int things right?
A: To a degree yes. TIO trained personnel operate at the battalion level in support of the Int staff there.
Q: How many IntO/IntOp positions are open now?
A: I don’t know. I’m not a recruiter.
Q: Do I need a degree? In what?
A: To be an officer, yes. And honestly it doesn’t hurt for NCMs either. The ability to write in a clear and concise manner, and the ability to speak with confidence to people many ranks higher than you are a must. Corporals routinely brief Colonels and Generals (based on where you are). Confidence in your skills and accuracy of your assessments mean credibility. Credibility means that the guy with many bars on his chest listens to the Corporal and can trust that the info/int presented is as accurate as possible. What kind of degree? Politics, History, International Relations. Degrees that help in providing insight into current events.
Q: Are Int guys all SOF? Do you get SOF/Spec pay? What colour is your beret?
A: I was actually asked this once. No, not all Int pers are SOF, no there is no fancy SOF or Spec pay. Unless you are posted to one of the CANSOF units, your beret is your element and your pay is normal. In a SOF unit, yes you change your beret and get supporter pay (unless you’re an operator)
Q: I have a criminal record.
A: Find another trade. If there is anything in your personal or family history connected to illegal activity or untrustworthyness, you will likely not get your security clearance and will end up being a waste of uniform.
Q: I want to be an intel guy!
A: Intel is an American term. Int as a trade has two main paths: officer (“IntO”) and NCM (“IntOp”, Intelligence Operator). Both have their own quirks. Those choosing the officer path generally do not need a background in any other military trade, as they spend about 4 years (give or take) learning how to play military. NCM (reg) is OT or CT only, as there needs to be some level of experience. No joining off the street (reserves is different, however I have no experience with that).
Q: Do I have to be combat arms first?
A: No, but it does help. Individuals who join the trade from a non Combat Arms trade sometimes struggle a little more with doctrine, having not really delved deep into the basics of how section/platoon/company/combat team attacks work. Again, this isn’t a 100% struggle for non combat arms folk, as there are plenty of combat arms transferees who struggle with it as well. Experience helps.
Q: Do you do James Bond/Jason Bourne stuff?
A: No.
Q: Do you do domestic operations?
A: Loaded question. Yes, Int pers deploy to domestic operations (fires, floods, Olympics, political summits), however CAF Int pers are NOT ALLOWED by law to collect information on Canadian citizens. That role falls to CSIS (for national security threats) and the RCMP (for criminal threats)
Q: What specialties can Int pers pursue?
A: HUMINT (for which any CAF member can undergo selection), Counter Int (CI, again, selection), Interrogator (selection), Imagery Analysis, Electronic Warfare Analyst. Most of these can be done by both NCM and Officer. These are not handed out willy nilly, again most is selection or merit based.
Q: Do Int guys go outside the wire?
A: Yes. Again, this is where having a preference for combat arms applies. A former infantryman is more likely to conduct a foot patrol than the former cook.
Q: What are the hours?
A: In garrison, the usual 0730-1600. In the field, expect 12-20 hour days in a mod tent behind a toughbook.
Q: What are the general Int jobs? Do I get to pick and choose?
A: The new Int was has effectively gotten rid of old job titles such as “logger” and “plotter” in favour of maintaining Collator and Analyst. Collators receive information from a variety of sources and agencies, save it in hard and/or soft copy and ensure that the Analysts receive pertinent info. Analysts take said information and use it to build a clear (as much as possible) picture of what is happening and what may happen next (based on fact, doctrine, and patterns). That’s as specific as I’ll give here. As for “pick and choose”, as much as I’d love to say yes, its no. Your CoC will assign you to a job based on your personal ability. Some people are really good at collating. Some are really good at Analysis. Some of the aforementioned skills either can’t be taught or the teaching doesn’t stick.
Q: Do IntOps have to do PLQ? Which one?
A: Yes, PLQ Land (or whatever the new name for it is) regardless of your element. Sorry Air Force, expect to get dirty.
Q: Non Int branch people do Int things right?
A: To a degree yes. TIO trained personnel operate at the battalion level in support of the Int staff there.
Q: How many IntO/IntOp positions are open now?
A: I don’t know. I’m not a recruiter.
Q: Do I need a degree? In what?
A: To be an officer, yes. And honestly it doesn’t hurt for NCMs either. The ability to write in a clear and concise manner, and the ability to speak with confidence to people many ranks higher than you are a must. Corporals routinely brief Colonels and Generals (based on where you are). Confidence in your skills and accuracy of your assessments mean credibility. Credibility means that the guy with many bars on his chest listens to the Corporal and can trust that the info/int presented is as accurate as possible. What kind of degree? Politics, History, International Relations. Degrees that help in providing insight into current events.
Q: Are Int guys all SOF? Do you get SOF/Spec pay? What colour is your beret?
A: I was actually asked this once. No, not all Int pers are SOF, no there is no fancy SOF or Spec pay. Unless you are posted to one of the CANSOF units, your beret is your element and your pay is normal. In a SOF unit, yes you change your beret and get supporter pay (unless you’re an operator)
Q: I have a criminal record.
A: Find another trade. If there is anything in your personal or family history connected to illegal activity or untrustworthyness, you will likely not get your security clearance and will end up being a waste of uniform.
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Let's see.....50-odd folks -- take "odd" as you will -- sitting in an ASIC for 6 months. How many went on a patrol? Note: "went on" as opposed to "conducted."Aldaren said:
Discounting the HUMINTers I've worked with, most of whom were not Int Ops, during my 10 months in Afghanistan I know of only 1 x Int Op who accompanied a patrol, and she went because of the knowledge she had, not because she was a "former infantryman and/or cook" -- the people requiring her presence didn't bother checking her MPRR. Not calling "BS" on your post, I just don't want any hopes being unduly raised.
Oh damn, another Recruiting thread :facepalm:
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Aldaren said:
I have a few of my Int Op colleagues who have been involved in firefights on several occasions. So yes, be prepared to.
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Reference the INT OP going out on patrols, especially Fighting Patrols, let's simplify it for the noobs. If your unit has one mechanic to fix the LAVs, that one mechanic is not likely to be sent out on patrols where (s)he may be seriously injured or killed. That would make the unit combat ineffective as they would find themselves in a position where all their vehicles were grounded and they could not conduct further patrolling. A little common sense (which we all know is not that common) goes a long way.
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