Future Helicopters

[daftandbarmy]

Tangentially....

I liked this guy. Greg Kinnear played him on the Battle for LZ X Ray on 'We were soldiers'

He made alot of sense. Like the part where he noted the Huey gunships were better than the Cobras, which were getting shot down because they couldn't hear the incoming fire and didn't have door gunners.

About 9.07

 

[KevinB]

Tangentially....

I liked this guy. Greg Kinnear played him on the Battle for LZ X Ray on 'We were soldiers'

He made alot of sense. Like the part where he noted the Huey gunships were better than the Cobras, which were getting shot down because they couldn't hear the incoming fire and didn't have door gunners.

Based on my experiences, you don't hear ground fire until it pierces the AC - doesn't matter if you are door open or not. Night time - you see the green tracer incoming (and then the impact with your bird) and it doesn't matter if your buttoned up or not.
The early Cobras where not nearly as armored against ground fire as the current ones, they where just a skinny airframe with the Huey power plant. Having seen what a current (ish) Cobra can do in combat, versus a UH-1N gunship - it's night and day. I totally disagree with his bad buy comments on the Cobra ~ 10:46, that airframe got AH's to what they are today.

Interesting video though

 

[Good2Golf]

^ This.

Back in the late-60s, did a UH-1B gunship/rocketship put down more than an AH-1? Sometimes, sometimes not. Respect to Kinnear (and any MoH recipient) but his argument, while there may have been some merit to it back in the day, would today hold no water…up-armed utility helos are still utility helos. AH are key to operations where close interdiction of the enemy from the air is a requirement.

 

[KevinB]

^ This.

Back in the late-60s, did a UH-1B gunship/rocketship put down more than an AH-1? Sometimes, sometimes not. Respect to Kinnear (and any MoH recipient) but his argument, while there may have been some merit to it back in the day, would today hold no water…up-armed utility helos are still utility helos. AH are key to operations where close interdiction of the enemy from the air is a requirement.

Totally does make me want a AH-47 though, no passengers - all guns, rockets and missiles, we could call it the AH-47F "Porcupine"

 

[dimsum]

Totally does make me want a AH-47 though, no passengers - all guns, rockets and missiles, we could call it the AH-47F "Porcupine"

You mean this thing?

ACH-47A Guns-A-Go-Go

“This small piece of metal is all that remains of “CO$T OF LIVING” after her fatal crash on May 5th, 1967 near Bong Son, Vietnam. Luckily, someone had the foresight to hack t…

www.armyaviationmuseum.org

 

[Good2Golf]

Totally does make me want a AH-47 though, no passengers - all guns, rockets and missiles, we could call it the AH-47F "Porcupine"

While he didn’t specifically mention the AH-47, he was appropriately laudatory of the beast!

 

[KevinB]

You mean this thing?

ACH-47A Guns-A-Go-Go

“This small piece of metal is all that remains of “CO$T OF LIVING” after her fatal crash on May 5th, 1967 near Bong Son, Vietnam. Luckily, someone had the foresight to hack t…

www.armyaviationmuseum.org

A fully Modern one would be neat.

 

[KevinB]

Best quote though "my cooks, clerks and Maj's from the staff, where all filling that door gunner spot"
Necessity breeds inovation

 

[daftandbarmy]

Best quote though "my cooks, clerks and Maj's from the staff, where all filling that door gunner spot"
Necessity breeds inovation

I liked the part about him leading in over 700 air assault operations.

He acknowledged that the LZs were not all 'hot', but still.... that's alot of 'things could go sideways'.

 

[OldSolduer]

Totally does make me want a AH-47 though, no passengers - all guns, rockets and missiles, we could call it the AH-47F "Porcupine"

I'm in, I'll man a gun. Sounds like fun,

 

[calculus]

Holy hell. Defiant will presumably have 2 of these?

Honeywell to power Defiant X compound coaxial helicopter

15,000 SHP!

 

[Good2Golf]

Holy hell. Defiant will presumably have 2 of these?

Honeywell to power Defiant X compound coaxial helicopter

15,000 SHP!

It’s a solid engine! 50% more power than the Chinook’s T55, and more than 10% more efficient.

 

[suffolkowner]

looks like too much machine for us

HP = $$?

 

[Dana381]

From what I found it has 7x the HP (1,890shp vs 15,000shp) of the Blackhawk to lift essentially the same load. Blackhawk payload is 9000# and the Defiant X is undisclosed but presumed to be around 10,000#. That is a lot of power to not even double the speed. 159kn vs 250kn

Specs for the V-280 are similar except its a little faster with 280kn cruise and 300kn max. That is a lot of extra power to get those speeds. A CH-47F can lift 2.5 times the weight at a decent 160kn cruise speed.

I think the V-280 and the Defiant X are really cool helicopters but I can't see smaller militaries like ours justifying the extra cost just for the speed advantage. With the global pressure to reduce greenhouse gas emissions I see these being a tough sell outside the US.

 

[Good2Golf]

looks like too much machine for us

Why is that? FLRAA or equivalent such as NGRC (NATO equivalent of US Army FVL program) is what will likely replace the Griffon, leveraging to an existing MILSPEC program.

HP = $$?

Not directly. Newer HP comes with greater relative efficiency and maintainability as a general rule. HTS7500 will have reduced Maint costs the same way that the existing T55-GA-714s of Canada’s CH-147F are more powerful and easier to maintain than the original 147’s T55-LS-11SCs.

 

[calculus]

From what I found it has 7x the HP (1,890shp vs 15,000shp) of the Blackhawk to lift essentially the same load. Blackhawk payload is 9000# and the Defiant X is undisclosed but presumed to be around 10,000#. That is a lot of power to not even double the speed. 159kn vs 250kn

Specs for the V-280 are similar except its a little faster with 280kn cruise and 300kn max. That is a lot of extra power to get those speeds. A CH-47F can lift 2.5 times the weight at a decent 160kn cruise speed.

I think the V-280 and the Defiant X are really cool helicopters but I can't see smaller militaries like ours justifying the extra cost just for the speed advantage. With the global pressure to reduce greenhouse gas emissions I see these being a tough sell outside the US.

More like 4x - the Blackhawk has 2 engines, or 3780 SHP.

I wonder if that pusher prop at the rear requires all that extra power?

 

[Dana381]

More like 4x - the Blackhawk has 2 engines, or 3780 SHP.

I wonder if that pusher prop at the rear requires all that extra power?

Your right, I don't know how I messed that up. OOPs. Thanks for pointing it out

 

[Good2Golf]

Power required is second-order exponential time speed, ie. Preq ≈ Speed^2

159kts > 250kts: Pwr = (250/159)^2 = 1.57^2 = 2.5 times the power.

 

[KevinB]

I think the V-280 and the Defiant X are really cool helicopters but I can't see smaller militaries like ours justifying the extra cost just for the speed advantage. With the global pressure to reduce greenhouse gas emissions I see these being a tough sell outside the US.

Speed, Range, Less Cost / Blade Hr, more efficient engine.

Speed is life in many situations.

 

[Dale Denton]

Bell launches 407M light attack helo​

Source - Janes
Source - Bell 407M product page

As with the 407GT, the 407M leverages the 407-derived OH-58D Kiowa Warrior that, until recently, served as the US Army's scout helicopter. According to company specifications, the 407M features a Garmin G1000H NXi cockpit with TekFusion Global Pathfinder mission and weapons management systems, has a night-vision goggle (NVG)-compatible cockpit, an electro-optic/infrared (EO/IR) sensor turret, and a CFD International two or four station weapons wing. With a 6,000 lb (2,722 kg) external maximum gross weight, the platform's weapons include 12.7 mm and 7.62 mm gun pods or pintle-mounted guns, seven-shot rocket pods, 70 mm Hydra/APKWS rockets, and Hellfire or Griffin air-to-surface missiles.

The 407M is equipped with armoured crew seating, defensive countermeasures, a self-sealing fuel system, ballistically tolerant main rotor blades, an IR suppression system with a 30-minute run-dry capability, and roll-over bulkheads for increased crash survivability. Performance specifications (at maximum gross weight) include a top speed of 140 kt, a range (at long-range cruise speed) of 624 km, and an endurance of up to four hours.