Forces struggling to recruit...

[IN HOC SIGNO]

The wait time for the RCMP is also a very long one, this is not unique to our organisation. I'm not saying it's a good thing but I have relatives who have waited a long time to get into the Mounties too.

 

[aesop081]

Thats quite sad to read, what ever happend to freedom of assosiation. You are just exposed to what we do and one can choose to join. What gives people the right to hide and take away the right to show people who we are, and what we do.

Did you miss all this by any chance ?

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/66411.0.html

 

[slowmode]

Did you miss all this by any chance ?

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/66411.0.html

Looks like I did, thanks . I've been away with school for quite some time so lets just say i was tuned out of the outside world. Ill read that

 

[Rayman]

What I noticed is a lot of reservists are High school/college/university students. The Military should set up little recruiting venues in schools across the country. Its a great way to recruit people. Another good way is simply showing your presence, if you show your presence to the Canadian Audience more will see you and what you do. Just my little opinions 

When I was younger I found out about the reserves when a couple recruiters came to my high school looking for full time or part time-they gave me all sorts of info even down to phone numbers and info nights and brouchers and everything.

 

[aesop081]

When I was younger I found out about the reserves when a couple recruiters came to my high school looking for full time or part time-they gave me all sorts of info even down to phone numbers and info nights and brouchers and everything.

Again, look 2 posts above yours.......as well as reply #278

 

[daftandbarmy]

An article that highlights another gap that the recruiting system is trying to close.

The War in Afghanistan: Where are the visible minorities?

http://www.asianpacificpost.com/portal2/ff808081144c4993011450c44e740011_Editorial__Canadian_Forces.do.html

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

An article that highlights another gap that the recruiting system is trying to close.

The War in Afghanistan: Where are the visible minorities?

http://www.asianpacificpost.com/portal2/ff808081144c4993011450c44e740011_Editorial__Canadian_Forces.do.html

The article is right about the challenges we face in attitudes in the immigrant communities. Many of the countries that people come from had oppressive military regimes or mandatory service and their attitudes about military service have been shaped by that experience.

 

[Edward Campbell]

From the linked article:

“I don't think Chinese families see careers for their children in the military,” said a Richmond-based political activist.

There is an old saying in parts of Asia which goes about like this:

"You don't use good iron to make horseshoe nails and you don't send good men to be soldiers."

It isn't just oppressive and corrupt uniformed services in the old country, it is also a deeply ingrained attitude which says that military (and police) service is a low occupation.

 

[Kiwi99]

Personally, I don't really get the minority and gender quotas in CF recruiting.  If a bunch of women or minority groupos dont want to be soldiers, then they won't be.  If only 1% of white males wanted to be soldiers, then thats all we would get.  Quotas are just a tool of political correctness and really are quite gay.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Personally, I don't really get the minority and gender quotas in CF recruiting.  If a bunch of women or minority groupos dont want to be soldiers, then they won't be.  If only 1% of white males wanted to be soldiers, then thats all we would get.  Quotas are just a tool of political correctness and really are quite gay.

I agree, Kiwi99. While I understand the head-shed's desire to try to have a CF which, roughly, reflects the society it serves, it ought to be a nice to have goal. We have some much more important must have and should have goals - beginning with more and more first class people - of whatever race, creed, gender, etc.

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

It's a little more complicated than that. It will be necessary to adjust our cultural norms in the Forces in order to attract those of other ethnic groups. If you regard the immigration numbers and the birth rate of white causaians you will quickly learn that our traditional recruiting base is quickly diminishing. In twenty or thirty years I predict that the face of our country is going to be very different than it is today....that is an inescapable fact.
These cultural norms will include every facet of life in the Forces from Religious accomodation to food service etc.  It's not soley about political correctness, although there are certainly those who wish to push that agenda. It's going to be about taping into where the recruits are....in the non-white, non-christian communities.
The CMP and others have already started down this road by visiting Mosques and temples and synagogues and other community gathering places to convince these communities that the Profession of Arms is a worthy one for their sons and daughters.
Given the direction of the country and the necessity of reaching more recruits I'd expect more changes in this area not fewer in the near future.

 

[TCBF]

... The CMP and others ...

- Who are "The CMP..." ?

- If it's worth living in, it's worth fighting for.

- Perhaps we do not have a recruiting crisis so much as a loyalty crisis.  This is the sort of muddle that tempted a previous government to build internment camps.  If the New-Canadians are not completely loyal, perhaps - for reasons of National Survival - we should draw our immigrants from societies KNOWN for their dedication to values similar to ours.

 

[aesop081]

- Who are "The CMP..." ?

Chief of Military Personel

 

[Edward Campbell]

It's a little more complicated than that. It will be necessary to adjust our cultural norms in the Forces in order to attract those of other ethnic groups. If you regard the immigration numbers and the birth rate of white causaians you will quickly learn that our traditional recruiting base is quickly diminishing. In twenty or thirty years I predict that the face of our country is going to be very different than it is today....that is an inescapable fact.
These cultural norms will include every facet of life in the Forces from Religious accomodation to food service etc.  It's not soley about political correctness, although there are certainly those who wish to push that agenda. It's going to be about taping into where the recruits are....in the non-white, non-christian communities.
The CMP and others have already started down this road by visiting Mosques and temples and synagogues and other community gathering places to convince these communities that the Profession of Arms is a worthy one for their sons and daughters.
Given the direction of the country and the necessity of reaching more recruits I'd expect more changes in this area not fewer in the near future.

The face of the country is already hugely different than when I joined an essentially all white, Anglo army nearly a half century ago.

We need to be very, very careful re: "what we change." There must be an essentially professional soldier ethos in our regular army. If (probably when) we have to fight another great war on (hopefully) some far distant shore we can readjust, quickly and surprisingly easily, I think, to the norms and mores of the society we will have. For now, we need professionals who can and will go anywhere and do anything.

Leaving aside the large born in Britain contingent in the Canadian Army in 1914/18, first generation immigrants do not, routinely, look to the army - not even to the levée en masse which is required when their adopted home is in dire need.

Even now we have made changes. I well recall when there was a great hue and cry when we made even slight accommodations for our one or two Jewish members; I don't think I ever met a Muslim Canadian soldier in over 35 years of service; now we have Jews and Muslims and we have chaplains to serve them too. I'm guessing we no longer "Fall out the Roman Catholics!" when the padres are about to do their business at some ceremony or another.

Change is good, mostly, unless or until it interferes with the core ethos. 

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

- Who are "The CMP..." ?

- If it's worth living in, it's worth fighting for.

- Perhaps we do not have a recruiting crisis so much as a loyalty crisis.  This is the sort of muddle that tempted a previous government to build internment camps.  If the New-Canadians are not completely loyal, perhaps - for reasons of National Survival - we should draw our immigrants from societies KNOWN for their dedication to values similar to ours.

Wow good luck trying to get that one passed...limiting immigration to societies known to share our values...won't fly past the constitution I don't think.
This isn't about loyalty. My father was an immigrant from England...he didn't join the Forces either...he was busy making a better life than he had before he got here...i.e. struggling to make a living and put bread on the table, and for the first 5 years of his life here he was not eligible for service as he was not a citizen yet. Of the second generation my brother became a successful business man (by what he now makes he claims to be keeping at least 6 people on welfare with the taxes he pays) and I joined the CF.
Our military culture has changed but it still largely reflects those things which appeal to white Caucasian Anglos or Francos (when I got in there was not a lot of accommodation for Francos either). Look around at the reality of Canadian society right now...our immigrants are not those who have the same traditions...that doesn't mean they are disloyal just because they are different.
It is true that we now are making religious accommodations and that will continue I think. But I think you're going to find a lot of other changes which mirror not only the fact that we are a changing society but the fact that we are also becoming more and more a secular society. Why do we continue to get basically 2 weeks of paid vacation that doesn't cost us a lot of annual leave at Christmas time? and four days at Easter? Perhaps we will go to staggered block leaves....March breaks or winter breaks that will help accommodate other cultures holidays etc.
I'm not advocating these changes these are things that are inevitably going to happen given the changing face of our country......Look around the House of Commons...why do you think there are more ethnic minorities getting elected?? it's because they are representative of the folks in their riding's. all institutions in this country will be changing due to this reality,,,,without a doubt.

 

[Edward Campbell]

...
It is true that we now are making religious accommodations and that will continue I think. But I think you're going to find a lot of other changes which mirror not only the fact that we are a changing society but the fact that we are also becoming more and more a secular society. Why do we continue to get basically 2 weeks of paid vacation that doesn't cost us a lot of annual leave at Christmas time? and four days at Easter?

Let's call 'em Saturnalia (that's what Xmas was before all the recent fall-di-rall) and Spring Festival. The latter will make the Chinese feel more at home - even if it's not at lunar new year.

 

[Col.Steiner]

I don't know how many times on these forums it has been pointed out that security clearances are NOT done by the CF.

There is a need for security clearances, I don't find that need disrespectful to applicants.  I DO find your accusation that the people who conduct those clearances are "plain stupid, lazy, and disrespectful" to be disrespectful to those who are swamped with security clearance applications.

I take it that you were that "one in a million" who remained interested long enough to join?

Yes, I guess I am one of those rare individuals who decided to stick it out! It either speaks volumes on my eagerness to join, or how stupid I am - not sure which yet!

 

[Col.Steiner]

:crybaby:

That is the typical response here, usually made by those who got in quick and with minimal difficulty





Mod edit to fix quote box

 

[aesop081]

That is the typical response here, usually made by those who got in quick and with minimal difficulty





Mod edit to fix quote box

...and an equal  :crybaby:  to you......

 

[kincanucks]

That is the typical response here, usually made by those who got in quick and with minimal difficulty





Mod edit to fix quote box

No that is the response of someone who has seen many like you who think the world owes them everything but get upset when they are faced with roadblocks that have to be overcome to achieve something.