CFB Bagotville gets 2 Air Expeditionary Wing (CPC's 600 man Bn election promise)

[IN HOC SIGNO]

This Globe and Mail story explains how the new unit makes military sense.
http://www.rbcinvest.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070721.wdefence20/front/Front/frontBN/rbc-front

However it seems to me that basing the new unit at Trenton or Winnipeg--where the types of aircraft most likely to be deployed on overseas expeditions (transports) are stationed--would make a lot more practical sense than Bagotville, where only CF-18s are now stationed. And the last time they were deployed overseas was to Aviano, Italy, in 1998/99 in response to the Kosovo crisis.

Maybe some of the new Chinooks will be based at Bagotville.

Mark
Ottawa

You are using military logic not political logic. he's looking for votes in Quebec not trenton or winnipeg.

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

Anyone else notice the left wing liberal agenda creeping in to all the news reports about this and the rest of the military spending? G & M starts by saying this is a departure from our "traditional peacekeeping role." last night on CTV Bob Fife was thumping the same drum and then of course we had the inevitable sound byte of Jack Layton saying the same thing. Layton even said it was a US style war build up......wow does he even know the capabilities of the US forces...ha ha what a fool.
I have to admire the PM and party for pushing ahead....i just hope he gets re-elected so we can take delivery and beef up before the old guard get back in again and reverse all the good being done.

 

[aesop081]

I like the idea of this type of unit but i will temper my enthusiasm until i get an explanation on where the troops will come from

 

[honestyrules]

As JoeCanada stated, if the Vandoos got a head up reference possible positions in Bagotville, that would make it  the force protection part of the deal.

For construction engineers, adding a few civilian positions within CE would get you the provision for the CE section within the new entity. I seen in the local paper that the Meteo section contracted out some of the work to civies recently here in Bagotville. Maybe thay was planned?

That unit being located to Bagotville would get you a mostly Franco staffing anyway.
What surprises me is that I thought that Greenwood and Winniped already had deployable contruction assets, fully kitted out. That's about all I know about the Air force expeditionary assets already in place.
Anyway, I just got posted here in Bagotville and I would switch to the new outfit in a heartbeat! Anybody a little "anxious" about their next career manager's briefings/appointments?

 

[McG]

There are a total of 10 Airfield Engineering Flights within the Air Force.
Ref:  http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/4wing/squadron/aes_e.asp

 

[Greymatters]

A little over a year ago, I had heard the Air Force was interested in restructuring itself entirely along these lines.  IIRC, the vision was to have 3 or 4 expeditionary wings such as the one described here, and these would rotate through levels of readiness just as Army units in managed readiness.  Maybe this announcement is just a first step?

Ive been hearing this kind of talk on and off since 1990, but it never seemed to get done.  Everytime the need was demonstrated, the operation would end or Canada would cease participation, and the political momentum would dry up. 

When we are talking 'rapid reaction', are they refering to a "be there within 72 hours" type of reaction force, or a "be there in a couple of weeks" type of reaction force?

 

[daftandbarmy]

Could this be an attempt to stand up the SSF in an 'airlanding' vs. 'airborne' role? 

 

[Globesmasher]

Why aren't all the functional air units capable of being rapidly deployed, subject to participating in a rotating schedule of varying states of readiness?

Brad:

You need to come and spend some time at 8 Wing Trenton and see just how busy the "Air Mobility" portion of the Air Force.  It's been deploying and rotating since winter 2001 without respite supporting overseas operations.  429, 436 and 437 Sqns are "vanguard" units (as defined in 1 Cdn Air Div Planning Guidance) and go anywhere at anytime.  In fact, like other branches and services that are subject to the high ops tempo, many personnel within "Air Mobility" who have spent time at 8 Wing are burning out.  This is also one reason why the CC150 Airbus has overflown it's YFR consistently and why the old CC130s are being "run into the ground" faster than was ever predicted.

There are plenty of us in blue who are ..."capable of being rapidly deployed, subject to participating in a rotating schedule of varying states of readiness".  Mind you, I only speak for Air Mobility ... that's in my lane.

 

[armyvern]

I'm going to go with Globesmasher on this one.

3 tours in 5 years out of Trenton (min 6 month), not counting DARTs and other short deployments +/- 3 months. You've got SAL etc that all launched from that location using hard Air Trades and purple trades posted to that location.

One of the busiest postings I've ever had, operationally wise. That's all without getting into our 3 X annual treks on 2 X dom ops Boxtop & 1 X dom op Hurricane, and their weekly resupply runs to Alert.

The pers op tempo was crazy.

 

[aesop081]

While Maritime patrol cannot claim to have it as busy as out TAL friends, our shortage of trained personel and ongoing operations abroad have increased the Op tempo to very high levels.  My time away from home in the last 2 years can attest to this.

 

[dapaterson]

In some ways, this will be a good cross-cultural pollination:  The fat, dumb and happy folks in fighters will get some exposure to real, deployable and deploying air assets and their support personnel.

Maybe they'll even try to up their readiness level so they can actually perform tasks other than air shows...

(Tongue planted slightly in cheek)

 

[Brad Sallows]

>You need to come and spend some time at 8 Wing Trenton and see just how busy the "Air Mobility" portion of the Air Force.

Your response is noted, but misses the point of my skepticism.  Either a capability was lacking or it was not (in which case the announcement smacked of political window dressing, and enough bullshit has transpired with this and previous governments for me to not give any benefit of doubt).  Now that more details have been publicized, it seems clear enough that a capability was lacking - not on the part of functional air units, but on the supporting establishment side.  IOW, the shortfall isn't the ability to project aircraft, but to project supporting establishments on shorter notice.

 

[SupersonicMax]

In some ways, this will be a good cross-cultural pollination:  The fat, dumb and happy folks in fighters will get some exposure to real, deployable and deploying air assets and their support personnel.

Maybe they'll even try to up their readiness level so they can actually perform tasks other than air shows...

(Tongue planted slightly in cheek)

Before you talk in bad about fighter guys, I suggest you spend a bit of time with a fighter unit to see what they do.  They are probably the folks that are away the most...  And it's not only for airshows...

Does Kosovo ring a bell for you?  Just for your info, I'm pretty confident in saying that they are ready to deploy in Afghanistan.

Max

 

[Franko]

Does Kosovo ring a bell for you?  Just for your info, I'm pretty confident in saying that they are ready to deploy in Afghanistan.

Just out of curiosity....can you name any ops that the fighters have been deployed on since '02?

Regards

 

[SupersonicMax]

Just out of curiosity....can you name any ops that the fighters have been deployed on since '02?

Regards

Combat ops no. But it's certainly not because they aren't ready to go.  Me think the reason is political.  If we deploy fighters, the population sees that as a war now. 

They are deployed on exercices more than their fair share and when they are home, it's far from being 8-4.  If you haven't been in a fighter unit and haven't seen how much work they put into it, you have no right to make comments such as :

In some ways, this will be a good cross-cultural pollination:  The fat, dumb and happy folks in fighters will get some exposure to real, deployable and deploying air assets and their support personnel.

Maybe they'll even try to up their readiness level so they can actually perform tasks other than air shows...

Their readiness level is way up there.

Max

 

[daftandbarmy]

So then, what's your take on this RDF thing? Is it just political hocus pocus, or will we see a 'new' type of deployable package developed?

 

[MarkOttawa]

How the trick may be done--from a Feb, 1 story by a certain reporter, based on a leaked document:
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=d4e3d936-d76d-4722-a5bd-192f075d2b15

...the 439 Combat Support Squadron at Canadian Forces Base Bagotville, Que., will be expanded and redesignated as an "expeditionary" unit to better support domestic and international operations. In particular, the squadron would support deployments of the military's rapid-reaction Disaster Assistance Response Team...

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Greymatters]

Combat ops no. But it's certainly not because they aren't ready to go.  Me think the reason is political.  If we deploy fighters, the population sees that as a war now. 

My support on that too.  A lot of these guys are gung-ho and ready to come join the fight, but if the government decides that the fighters and helicopters arent going to get deployed, then thats the way it is.  If you dont like it, send an email to Gen Hillier.



 

 

[dapaterson]

My support on that too.  A lot of these guys are gung-ho and ready to come join the fight, but if the government decides that the fighters and helicopters arent going to get deployed, then thats the way it is.  If you dont like it, send an email to Gen Hillier.

Erk.  Not quite.

If the government has made a decision, it is not up to the CDS to change it.  It is up to the government to do so.

 

[vangemeren]

How the trick may be done--from a Feb, 1 story by a certain reporter, based on a leaked document:
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=d4e3d936-d76d-4722-a5bd-192f075d2b15

...the 439 Combat Support Squadron at Canadian Forces Base Bagotville, Que., will be expanded and redesignated as an "expeditionary" unit to better support domestic and international operations. In particular, the squadron would support deployments of the military's rapid-reaction Disaster Assistance Response Team...

Mark
Ottawa

Isn't Bagotville a little far away to support DART? (or am I just a moron and it makes perfect sense)