Goose Bay: Promises & updates

[The Bread Guy]

So, does anyone want to tell the good people of Labrador that Canada currently doesn't have any "Drones" that are even remotely capable of performing the services they are asking for?

Ah, but that's not what the Party's 2006 letter to Premier Danny Williams said:

.... A Conservative government will establish in Newfoundland and Labrador the following new operational requirements for the protection of Canadian sovereignty and security:

- Station a new Rapid Reaction Army Battalion (approximately 650 regular force personnel) for enhanced Atlantic army response at CFB Goose Bay.
(....)
- Station a new long range Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) Squadron at CFB Goose Bay to provide surveillance over the Atlantic Ocean and Eastern Arctic.

Overall, the Conservative plan for national defence will result in a significant increase in employment in Goose Bay and the St. John's area, resulting from a significant expansion of the federal defence presence in Newfoundland and Labrador....

A looooooooooooong way from "yeah, we'll do it" to "yup, it's done".....

 

[dimsum]

I forgot about the Army Bn part.  Good luck with that. 

 

[armyvern]

I can see 5 Wing being used intermittently as a launch/recovery base for missions up north, but permanently?  I wouldn't even want to imagine the issues involved in sending a few hundred members and their dependants to Goose Bay for 3 years.

Circa the Gulf War 1 years, that place was rocking and busy. I actually enjoyed the place.

 

[chrisf]

  :facepalm:
Yes, I assume that the runway has not shrunk and is still large enough to accomodate fighters and airliners. Perhaps I should have said "populous," or "the Goose Bay-Happy Valley Legion has lots of bar stools."

No, actually I was referring to the rest of the basebut, not sure if you've been there lately,  the facilities are all still there, both German and Canadian, and still maintained, just unoccupied. Admitedly "cold war surplus", but in decent shape.

The town of Happy Valley Goosebay? Boring as ever. Lab City on the other hand is booming. They've got a walmart!

 

[ProudNewfoundlander]

The base was created initially because the terrain resembled the that  of much for the former Soviet Union, and its subsequent usage was heavily tied into the cold war. With the Soviet Union and the Cold war ended its largely outlived its usefulness. It happens...

 

[aesop081]

With the Soviet Union and the Cold war ended its largely outlived its usefulness. It happens...

Shrinking European defence budgets and advanced simulation systems had more to do with it than any similarity with the terrain in the USSR. Not to mention the never-ending complaints about noise from the "locals".

 

[ProudNewfoundlander]

Shrinking European defence budgets and advanced simulation systems had more to do with it than any similarity with the terrain in the USSR. Not to mention the never-ending complaints about noise from the "locals".

Well, a huge reason it was established and maintained was because of geographical similarity , especially during the former half of the Cold War. Even with simulators, having a tangible asset such as similar terrain was still seen as advantage. With the USSR no longer a threat, let alone not existing, a significant reason for the base was lost.

Some locals complained, but it never became that significant, and that certainly wouldn't lead to decreased use of the base. Out these ways its surprisingly easy to get something in the paper, and theres always people complaining about something. Go to anyone from this province and mention "call-in" and see the reaction you get.

 

[ProudNewfoundlander]

Not to mention decreased defense budgets would tie into the end of the Soviet Union and the Cold war. I felt it was implied, but just re-affirming

 

[aesop081]

Even with simulators, having a tangible asset such as similar terrain was still seen as advantage.

I never said it wasn't.

When the Euros figured out they could do what they needed to for cheaper at home, GB lost its reason to exist. Everything else was secondary at best.

Not to mention decreased defense budgets would tie into the end of the Soviet Union and the Cold war. I felt it was implied, but just re-affirming

As i said, money was the driving factor. If the Euros could do low flying in GB for cheaper than at home, they would still be there. They can't so the don't.

 

[The Bread Guy]

A bump with the latest on this one, from CBC.ca (highlights mine):

In a recent written response to questions tabled in Parliament, Defence Minister Peter MacKay’s answers reveal that 2006 federal Conservative promises for 5 Wing Goose Bay are no longer part of the military’s plans.

Prior to the election that brought the Tories to power, Stephen Harper promised to station a new, 650-member rapid reaction army battalion at CFB Goose Bay, plus a new long-range unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) squadron at the base.

The Conservatives also pledged to create a new territorial defence battalion of about 100 regular force and 400 reserve force personnel in St. John’s.

“Overall, the Conservative plan for national defence will result in a significant increase in employment in Goose Bay and the St. John’s area, resulting from a significant expansion of the federal defence presence in Newfoundland and Labrador,” Harper, at the time Opposition leader, wrote in a Jan. 4, 2006, letter to then-premier Danny Williams.

Earlier this year, Nova Scotia Liberal MP Rodger Cuzner put a question on the order paper in the House of Commons asking about the status of previous military commitments as they relate to Ottawa’s so-called Canada First Defence Strategy.

The government is required to answer such questions.

Defence Minister Peter MacKay did so, in writing, last month.

In his response, MacKay confirmed “there are currently no plans” to establish a 650-member battalion at 5 Wing.

As for the unmanned aerial vehicle squadron in Goose Bay, there is nothing firm on the horizon for that either.

“As part of the [defence strategy], there will be a surveillance ‘system of systems’ that will be comprised of sensors, unmanned vehicles and satellites that will keep Canada’s maritime approaches safe and secure, including in the Arctic,” MacKay’s response notes ....

Here's the written response (PDF).

Previous discussion on battalions, UAVs and election promises:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/30747.0/all.html

 

[OldSolduer]

If they want drones, there are Reserve Bde HQs full of drones.....

OH!!! You meant drones that actually do things......sorry about that. 

 

[dimsum]

A bump with the latest on this one, from CBC.ca (highlights mine):Here's the written response (PDF).

Previous discussion on battalions, UAVs and election promises:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/30747.0/all.html

Phew.  :blotto:

 

[The Bread Guy]

I wish to reaffirm that the defence team is working to fulfill our commitment for an operational mandate for Canadian Forces Base Goose Bay so that the Base, and the community, prospers for years to come. Minister Penashue and I look forward to announcing this operational mandate as soon as work is complete.

Our government is committed to ensuring a clear operational mandate for 5 Wing Goose Bay that takes advantage of its unique location and enhances the protection of Canadian sovereignty, including in the Arctic. CFB Goose Bay has numerous advantages for the Canadian Forces and our allies, including its unique location and the enthusiasm of Happy Valley-Goose Bay residents for a larger military role in their community. Our government has made major investments to ensure that our allies can take advantage of the training potential at CFB Goose Bay. It was our government that invested $20 million in resurfacing the runway at Goose Bay to ensure that the base remains a world-class facility. It was our government investing $300 million to decontaminate sites around the base that will generate important economic opportunities for the community. In recent years, Canadian Forces Base Goose Bay has been a hub for low-level allied flight training and I am pleased to note our German allies have returned to Goose Bay for this training.

Following years of unprecedented operational tempo in which Canadian Forces members provided security to Afghans, protected civilians in Libya, delivered humanitarian assistance in Haiti and served to defend Canada and Canadian interests, the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Forces are now looking to optimize the potential of numerous bases and military installations across this country. CFB Goose Bay is a necessary and integral part of our vision for the Canadian Forces.

The Honourable Peter MacKay
Minister of National Defence

DND/CF Info-machine, 17 May 12 - also  attached if link doesn't work

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Well, a huge reason it was established and maintained was because of geographical similarity , especially during the former half of the Cold War. Even with simulators, having a tangible asset such as similar terrain was still seen as advantage. With the USSR no longer a threat, let alone not existing, a significant reason for the base was lost.

Some locals complained, but it never became that significant, and that certainly wouldn't lead to decreased use of the base. Out these ways its surprisingly easy to get something in the paper, and theres always people complaining about something. Go to anyone from this province and mention "call-in" and see the reaction you get.

Actually, you are quite wrong about the protesting from the locals not being significant.  I spent most of the spring of 1990 with my unit conducting security duties in Goose Bay, to prevent the locals from getting onto the runway and preventing flight operations, as a protest against low- level flying over Labrador.  There was probably a 100 man security force in place for the better part of two years, as a result of those protests.

 

[The Bread Guy]

The latest, from the House of Commons, from Minister from the area Peter Penashue:

Mr. Speaker, I can reaffirm that our government is working to fulfill our commitment for an operational mandate for 5 Wing Goose Bay that takes advantage of a unique location and enhances the protection of Canadian sovereignty, including in the Arctic.  Since 2006, our government has consistently worked to ensure the future viability of 5 Wing Goose Bay through investments, such as runway resurfacing and decontaminating sites around the base.

Some of the work done:
Replacing ATC radar
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/97377/post-987113.html#msg987113
Remediation under Area D
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/94797.0.html
What to do with the POL farm?
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/79280.0
Privatizing bulk fuel storage
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/91798.0
Mapping "hydrocarbon plumes"
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/105700/post-1140166.html#msg1140166

And even this MERX listing I missed earlier this month:

.... Public Works and Government Services Canada (PWGSC) anticipates soliciting industry to deliver Site Support Services in support of the DND activities at 5 Wing Goose Bay, Newfoundland and Labrador, Canada .... In order to ensure a successful procurement for the provision of the New Contract for Site Support Services activities at 5 Wing Goose Bay, Newfoundland and Labrador, Canada, Industry shall be engaged in an engagement process as the first step in this solicitation. The engagement process includes an "Industry Engagement Session" followed by one-on-one "Industry Meetings" and Industry "Working Group Meetings", followed by the conventional RFP process ....

Edited to add link to bid documents (including how DND is going to engage industry and Aboriginal groups) here (via Google Docs)

 

[The Bread Guy]

Ottawa is planning to turn 5 Wing Goose Bay into a full-fledged military base, according to Newfoundland and Labrador's representative in the federal cabinet, Peter Penashue.

In an interview for this week’s episode of On Point with David Cochrane, Penashue said Goose Bay will have a role to play in Canada's Arctic sovereignty.

He said that will mean a change in Goose Bay's status.

“Previous governments, Liberals, have never turned it into an operational base,” Penashue said. “It’s a station. It’s a satellite office. And we’re committed to turning 5 Wing Goose Bay into a full-fledged military base.”

Pressed on when that may happen, Penashue said news will come soon.

“We’ll be making announcements in the next several months,” the minister said.

Penashue said a committee is looking for ways to expand the station.

He said the beefed-up role will likely be related to the protection of Canada's Arctic ....

CBC.ca, 24 May 12

Re:  the bit in yellow, uh, the RCAF Info-machine seems to think Goose Bay is a Canadian Forces BASE.....

 

[mad dog 2020]

I too spent a summer on security duties and I found it great as a young soldier. So I hope this works out. I found that in a semi isolated base you grow closer. For families though the resupply issue will be $$$$$$$$$$. The only  thing cheap was the foreign duty free messes.  Car insurance was very little as not much traffic or roads or skidoo or ATV to work. 
So what Regt would provide the Bn. 
Bring back YTEP........ Great place to start orvtrain haha.

 

[dimsum]

CBC.ca, 24 May 12

Re:  the bit in yellow, uh, the RCAF Info-machine seems to think Goose Bay is a Canadian Forces BASE.....

So what does he want to be put there, considering the Bn, UAVs and other assorted folks aren't going to be there?  I'd suggest keeping it as a "bare base" like the Aussies do; like a super-FOL that can be activated in an emergency and brought up to base status within x hours/days.  But now I'm just thinking common sense v. political sense.  I hate it when I do that.

 

[armyvern]

Actually, you are quite wrong about the protesting from the locals not being significant.  I spent most of the spring of 1990 with my unit conducting security duties in Goose Bay, to prevent the locals from getting onto the runway and preventing flight operations, as a protest against low- level flying over Labrador.  There was probably a 100 man security force in place for the better part of two years, as a result of those protests.

You're not lying. I was there too exactly because of those protests. Although I worked as part of an MP shift, I was on call for other shifts to perform searches of any females arrested - there were many - I hung out with the 119AD guys out of Chatam who were brought in as the security force. They were replaced by the VanDoos when 119AD was pulled to man defensive weapons on the HMCShips proceeding to Gulf War I. The only thing that ceased those protests was the deployment of US aircraft (thousands of 'em) and troops through Goose Bay on their way to the Gulf. They were crazy busy times.

The protesters were pretty significant. I once had to deal with a heavily pregnant local female whom had been arrested and loaded onto a school bus with others who were detained while trying to breach the flight line fence ... only to have her kick out the bus window and begin munching down glass (that's right) while thinking to myself, "WTF, you're pregnant honey". I'm not a small, weak female ... but mother of gawd she was a handful. They were certainly loud and very vocal coupled with quite determined. Certainly not insignificant.

My supervisor was an MP Sgt (Butch) who bet me a hundred bucks that I wouldn't get a crew cut. Silly man. 100 bucks was a lot for a Pte back then! That 100 bucks was spent purchasing 3 dollar trays of Heineken at the German mess, proper whiskeys at the Bulldog Club, and spinning the damn wheel for shooters at the bar immediately outside the front gate (I forget the name of the place, but will never forget the wheel). I can tell you to a scientific certainty that 9 times out of 10 ---- Vern will spin a Prairie Fire. Ughhhh.

The entire time period was interesting indeed; busy as hell, with multitudes of weird and unforgettable experiences. Not insignificant in my life.

 

[The Bread Guy]

.... the RCAF Info-machine seems to think Goose Bay is a Canadian Forces BASE.....

Correction issued via CBC.ca, with more interesting content....

.... Penashue's office issued a correction Thursday after the remarks were published and broadcast, noting that 5 Wing — also known as Canadian Forces Base Goose Bay — has the status of a base.

Penashue's office also said the minister's comments about expected announcements on the expansion of 5 Wing still stand.

Said a spokesman for Penashue: "5 Wing is not an operational base at present and that is something that our government and Minister Penashue are determined to see changed."

So what does he want to be put there?

Good question - I guess we'll have to wait until we hear more.