CDN/US Covid-related political discussion

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Ford said the province could do 150k a day if the feds got them the shots. His words. He lied. His government is failing to get even half of that administered.

104,382 given yesterday.....

 

[Mick]

Is it the rollout (process) or are people not singing up for the vaccine ? For some reason I have it in my head the AZ vaccine has had some growing pains and people are somewhat unwilling to take it.

Why doesn't Canada have as much of the other two options ?

Canada’s COVID-19 vaccine supply and donation strategy - Canada.ca

Information on how Canada has procured its vaccines, managed the vaccine supply in country, and how vaccines are donated globally.

www.canada.ca

According to link above, as of 5 April:

Total distribution in Canada: 10,059,962
Covishield: 500,000
Pfizer / Biontech: 6,169,782
Moderna: 1,945,280
AstraZeneca: 1,444,900

Provincial breakdown at link as well.

 

[Mick]

104,382 given yesterday.....

So 45,000 short. Feds' fault?

 

[Halifax Tar]

Canada’s COVID-19 vaccine supply and donation strategy - Canada.ca

Information on how Canada has procured its vaccines, managed the vaccine supply in country, and how vaccines are donated globally.

www.canada.ca

According to link above, as of 5 April:

Total distribution in Canada: 10,059,962
Covishield: 500,000
Pfizer / Biontech: 6,169,782
Moderna: 1,945,280
AstraZeneca: 1,444,900

Provincial breakdown at link as well.

Very informative, even if I am distrustful of the machines own produced info.

So I say again, is it the roll out ? Or are people not taking the vaccine ? Those are two very different problems. Both with complicated and ego damaging answers.

I keep hearing there are skads and skads of vaccine going unused and some may expire. So what's the problem ?

 

[Altair]

Very informative, even if I am distrustful of the machines own produced info.

So I say again, is it the roll out ? Or are people not taking the vaccine ? Those are two very different problems. Both with complicated and ego damaging answers.

I keep hearing there are skads and skads of vaccine going unused and some may expire. So what's the problem ?

Unfilled appointments, some regions not getting the vaccines from the province and thus shutting down vaccine centers, vaccine hesitancy and age restrictions.

All are creating drag.

 

[blacktriangle]

104,382 given yesterday.....

So less than 70% of stated target. The government either can't make accurate estimates, or they seriously fail at execution.

Even plebeians in the military take courses & exams that require 70% or higher to pass...

 

[Halifax Tar]

I truly hope we tear this whole experience apart when its over; examine the successes and capitalize on them. At the same time we need to look at and identify the failures; and hold those accountable in the hot seats; and put in place measures and infrastructure to ensure we do not experience this again.

Sadly I would bet dollars to doughnuts there will be a parliamentary committee, partisan of course. And it will come out medals and high fives for everyone involved.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

So 45,000 short. Feds' fault?

Lighten up Francis, I just reported a number.
Hopefully IF the Feds manage to keep the vaccines coming that number ramps up. And hopefully they find enough folks who'll take the AstraZeneca. I hear lots here say they would, but saying you will take it is about as solid a thing as the number we MAY be getting.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

‘Possible’ link between AstraZeneca vaccine and rare blood clots, EU drug regulator says​

Europe's drug regulator found a possible link between AstraZeneca's COVID-19 vaccine and rare blood clotting issues in adults who had received the shot.
Global News3 hours ago

Clear link between AstraZeneca and rare blood clots in brain, EMA vaccine chief says​

There is a link between AstraZeneca's COVID-19 vaccine and very rare blood clots in the brain but the possible causes are still unknown, a senior official for the ...
National PostYesterday

I didn't click on either link but took that right from google news. Two headlines inches apart saying such different things. Rightly or wrongly I can understand the reluctance, which has to suck huge for both the Feds and the Provinces.

 

[Altair]

‘Possible’ link between AstraZeneca vaccine and rare blood clots, EU drug regulator says​

Europe's drug regulator found a possible link between AstraZeneca's COVID-19 vaccine and rare blood clotting issues in adults who had received the shot.
Global News3 hours ago

Clear link between AstraZeneca and rare blood clots in brain, EMA vaccine chief says​

There is a link between AstraZeneca's COVID-19 vaccine and very rare blood clots in the brain but the possible causes are still unknown, a senior official for the ...
National PostYesterday

I didn't click on either link but took that right from google news. Two headlines inches apart saying such different things. Rightly or wrongly I can understand the reluctance, which has to suck huge for both the Feds and the Provinces.

Not really.

Allow people to sign a waiver saying they understand the risk of a blood clot and open it up to the general population.

There are likely more than enough people 18+ who would take any vaccine if offered.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

There may also be people in the health chain who are whispering things like "Do we want a potential couple million folks hitting the system with brain clots a year from now?"

 

[Mick]

Lighten up Francis, I just reported a number.
Hopefully IF the Feds manage to keep the vaccines coming that number ramps up. And hopefully they find enough folks who'll take the AstraZeneca. I hear lots here say they would, but saying you will take it is about as solid a thing as the number we MAY be getting.

Didn't mean to upset you - wasn't meant to be an aggressive post. You've been aiming a fair bit of blame at the Feds, and echoing Premier Ford's claims that federal vaccine deliveries have caused a backlog in Ontario's rollout. That's all I'm addressing. Other than production delays that are totally out of the gov't's control, the deliveries are happening, and in increasing numbers. Rollout is a provincial responsibility and that seems to be where the backlog is occurring.

I've also reported numbers (with a link), and AZ only accounts for about 10% of total vaccines delivered.

 

[Altair]

There may also be people in the health chain who are whispering things like "Do we want a potential couple million folks hitting the system with brain clots a year from now?"

https://twitter.com/x/status/1379809111265673222

In the 20-29 cohort maybe.

 

[PMedMoe]

Is it the rollout (process) or are people not signing up for the vaccine ?

People must be signing up for it. Or maybe making an appointment and then not showing up. I am currently on three (plus) waitlists. One pharmacy I contacted said they already had 2000 people on their waitlist and weren't adding more.

 

[GR66]

Doug Ford is pissing on your head and calling it rain.

He has 18 days supply at current rates of vaccination, 9 days if he can meet his lofty 150k a day, and 800k coming in by the 11th, so no, that makes no sense.

He has the supply. He needs to get it out of the door.

I'm not going to pick sides between Trudeau and Ford...they both have screw-ups to answer for in my mind, but I think the simple number of "doses in freezers" isn't necessarily a totally fair measure of the vaccination rollout.

800k doses coming in by the 11th. So, does the Ontario Government open up those 800k bookings today for slots starting on the 12th? Maybe the 13th to give a day for distribution to the vaccination centres? People have to plan after all. You may not agree with a booking system, but it's what we have.

What happens if the delivery doesn't arrive until 11pm on the 11th? What if there is a truck breakdown somewhere? Any little hiccup that impacts the promised/expected delivery on the 11th could mean that Ms. Smith who has an appointment booked for 9am on the 13th could show up and be told "sorry...no vaccine for you today you'll have to re-book".

What would that do to the system overall if people start being turned away from booked appointments? Or if we get rid of appointments and have a "come and get your shot" system, and people line up at the big tent to get their shot and are told "Sorry, sold out"?

It makes sense in this case (when you're booking appointments in advance) to wait until you actually have the doses physically in your hands at the distribution centre before you promise it to someone at a specific time and date.

My 89yo mother went to a vaccination centre (driven by one of my brothers that happened to be available that day) in a community a 40min drive away because that's where appointments were available. The actual process of getting the vaccination went very smoothly. However, if she and others had shown up at the scheduled time and were turned away because of a delay in vaccine delivery then confidence in the system would have been hurt. How would that affect vaccination rates?

Deliveries of vaccines so far has been in spurts rather than a steady regular flow. And there have been delays and promised dates that were not met. That also makes it hard to schedule. Will people scream at Ford's incompetence when on April 11th the number of doses in freezers suddenly jumps by 800,000 units? OMG on the 12th (in transit) it's still up 800,000! Why haven't they been put into arms? The 13th (going to the distribution centres)....For crying out loud...why aren't people being vaccinated??? The 14th (receipt confirmed and bookings opened up)...FFS it's been 3 days and Ford's been sitting on almost a MILLION doses and done NOTHING! The 15th (the first appointments are getting filled)...well FINALLY some action...but why so few going out? The 16th (next batch of 800,000 is EXPECTED tomorrow)....wash, rinse, repeat.

 

[Mick]

I'm not going to pick sides between Trudeau and Ford...they both have screw-ups to answer for in my mind, but I think the simple number of "doses in freezers" isn't necessarily a totally fair measure of the vaccination rollout.

800k doses coming in by the 11th. So, does the Ontario Government open up those 800k bookings today for slots starting on the 12th? Maybe the 13th to give a day for distribution to the vaccination centres? People have to plan after all. You may not agree with a booking system, but it's what we have.

What happens if the delivery doesn't arrive until 11pm on the 11th? What if there is a truck breakdown somewhere? Any little hiccup that impacts the promised/expected delivery on the 11th could mean that Ms. Smith who has an appointment booked for 9am on the 13th could show up and be told "sorry...no vaccine for you today you'll have to re-book".

What would that do to the system overall if people start being turned away from booked appointments? Or if we get rid of appointments and have a "come and get your shot" system, and people line up at the big tent to get their shot and are told "Sorry, sold out"?

It makes sense in this case (when you're booking appointments in advance) to wait until you actually have the doses physically in your hands at the distribution centre before you promise it to someone at a specific time and date.

My 89yo mother went to a vaccination centre (driven by one of my brothers that happened to be available that day) in a community a 40min drive away because that's where appointments were available. The actual process of getting the vaccination went very smoothly. However, if she and others had shown up at the scheduled time and were turned away because of a delay in vaccine delivery then confidence in the system would have been hurt. How would that affect vaccination rates?

Deliveries of vaccines so far has been in spurts rather than a steady regular flow. And there have been delays and promised dates that were not met. That also makes it hard to schedule. Will people scream at Ford's incompetence when on April 11th the number of doses in freezers suddenly jumps by 800,000 units? OMG on the 12th (in transit) it's still up 800,000! Why haven't they been put into arms? The 13th (going to the distribution centres)....For crying out loud...why aren't people being vaccinated??? The 14th (receipt confirmed and bookings opened up)...FFS it's been 3 days and Ford's been sitting on almost a MILLION doses and done NOTHING! The 15th (the first appointments are getting filled)...well FINALLY some action...but why so few going out? The 16th (next batch of 800,000 is EXPECTED tomorrow)....wash, rinse, repeat.

Fully agree with this statement - but a similar lens can be applied to the federal distribution effort. The federal government is getting the vaccines out the door as soon as they can; they have no control over how quickly they arrive from the manufacturer - the sad reality due to a lack of domestic production capability.

Federal and provincial leaders pointing fingers at each other accomplishes nothing.

 

[Altair]

I'm not going to pick sides between Trudeau and Ford...they both have screw-ups to answer for in my mind, but I think the simple number of "doses in freezers" isn't necessarily a totally fair measure of the vaccination rollout.

Okay

800k doses coming in by the 11th. So, does the Ontario Government open up those 800k bookings today for slots starting on the 12th? Maybe the 13th to give a day for distribution to the vaccination centres? People have to plan after all. You may not agree with a booking system, but it's what we have.

So long as the booking system isn't leading to backlog I don't care one way or another about it. If it is, I would scrap it.

What happens if the delivery doesn't arrive until 11pm on the 11th? What if there is a truck breakdown somewhere? Any little hiccup that impacts the promised/expected delivery on the 11th could mean that Ms. Smith who has an appointment booked for 9am on the 13th could show up and be told "sorry...no vaccine for you today you'll have to re-book".

If the provinces want 2-3 days supply on hand to deal with potential delays, okay. But with the Ontario government saying they can vaccinate 150k a day, they need to have 450k on hand.

So Ontario has 1.3m vaccines right now. If they use 150k per day for the next 4 days before their next delivery, they will have 700k left. 300k more than needed. And that's IF they get to 150k. So far they are at 100k. If they continue at 100k, they have 900k still left.

Do you think this is reasonable?

What would that do to the system overall if people start being turned away from booked appointments? Or if we get rid of appointments and have a "come and get your shot" system, and people line up at the big tent to get their shot and are told "Sorry, sold out"?

Look above.

It makes sense in this case (when you're booking appointments in advance) to wait until you actually have the doses physically in your hands at the distribution centre before you promise it to someone at a specific time and date.

Not really.

My 89yo mother went to a vaccination centre (driven by one of my brothers that happened to be available that day) in a community a 40min drive away because that's where appointments were available. The actual process of getting the vaccination went very smoothly. However, if she and others had shown up at the scheduled time and were turned away because of a delay in vaccine delivery then confidence in the system would have been hurt. How would that affect vaccination rates?

Deliveries of vaccines so far has been in spurts rather than a steady regular flow. And there have been delays and promised dates that were not met.

This was earlier, from January to early March. Since early March the vaccines have been coming regularly and in large numbers

That also makes it hard to schedule. Will people scream at Ford's incompetence when on April 11th the number of doses in freezers suddenly jumps by 800,000 units? OMG on the 12th (in transit) it's still up 800,000! Why haven't they been put into arms? The 13th (going to the distribution centres)....For crying out loud...why aren't people being vaccinated??? The 14th (receipt confirmed and bookings opened up)...FFS it's been 3 days and Ford's been sitting on almost a MILLION doses and done NOTHING! The 15th (the first appointments are getting filled)...well FINALLY some action...but why so few going out? The 16th (next batch of 800,000 is EXPECTED tomorrow)....wash, rinse, repeat.

They should be at 150k a day, and they should have 450k left on the day of that delivery. Anything more than that I consider a failure.

 

[Brad Sallows]

I truly hope we tear this whole experience apart when its over

There will be foot-dragging by the incumbents over the idea, but if anything merits AAR, surely a pandemic response does.

 

[Altair]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1379869329819381761

Remember when I said I thought I knew better than Ford?

I think he's finally on par with what I would do.

 

[Loachman]

Take Tam and Trudeau if you wish.

À chaqu’un son propre goût...

Neither are to my liking, but your kind offer is, nonetheless, cordially appreciated.