Canadian Military Prison

[Highland Laddie]

Yes, Officers can (and still do) get sent to Club Ed. Someone asked the question if the officers are treated the same as the NCMs. I'm not employed at the DB, so I wouldn't know, but I definitely know you don't want to be sent there. My understanding is that you are not allowed to talk at all while there unless addressed by one of the staff. I also heard that for officers the offending passage of the QR&Os / NDA is painted on your cell wall for you to stare at 24/7, but this more than likely falls under the 'urban legend' category.

I did know a Cpl you got sent there in the early 1990's for a month, and he clearly stated you didn't want to go there. He refused to talk about it in any great detail, but his attitude certainly changed for the better.

 

[Sig_Des]

I remember being in an interview by an MP Captain, and he had some insight on Club Ed.

It's not as Garish as some other prisons, but it's hard. There is less than a 3% repeat offender rate. Everything is a reward for good behaviour, smoking, television,etc, although the smoking bit may have changed since the new fed laws regarding prisons.

It's not technically a Federal Prison, therefore the longest you'll do is 2 years. And as far as bread and water, it's never for more than 3 consecutive days, and only in extreme cases of disciplinary problems. So if you get 4 days B &W, you have it for 3 days, one day of normal eats, then one more day B & W.

I've also heard from others that there is no speaking, unless by one of the guards, but that's hearsay, and I can't confirm.

What I can say is, think of your worse days in BMQ, triple it, and say to yourself you never want to do anything to get yourself sent there.

 

[The_Falcon]

A couple of my officers were discussing this at SG this year.  It came up as a matter of sentencing class b guys to a few days in dentention.  Anyways, for those who forgot about this lecture during basic, pretty much everything is a privilege that must be earned (including, speaking freely).  Also like someone mentioned think basic but way more anal retentive, like polishing garbage cans/door knobs, mopping/sweeping with drill movements (this came from one of my officers, who saw this while going on tour there) ie mop--right-turn--1 pace forward--halt--left-turn--mop etc.  If you remember on the video the guy was given a steel pail with a huge sticker and a tin of shoe polish.  He had to remove the sticker from the pail (without scratching the pail) and polish it, remove paint from tin of shoe polish not scratch it, polish shoe polish tin.  (My PT NCO from basic, showed us his shoe polish tin he kept after he did time in the brig while on tour).  Not a fun place. Never want to go there.

 

[Cliffy433]

I've heard of and from a few guys who've been...

1. (hearsay) Came back so diciplined, once a Snr NCO asked to meet him on the Pde Square for a routine task... forgot about the task and was going home at the end of the day to see the young Cpl standing properly at ease in the blistering heat - had been there several hours without moving, not daring to seek out a Snr NCO.

2. (from the horse's mouth) Went for 6 weeks, doesn't talk about it much - states if ever charged with a crime sufficient enough to warrant time there, he'll kill himself before court martial.

3.  (from the horse's mouth) Went for 14 days, end of ROTO 7 - anyone there will know why.  DB was quite slow, not a lot of guests.  The food gave him such horrendous gas, that for the health and well-being of those interred with him, he got his own private wing.  It's still on a points system.  Earn enough points, and they may allow you to smoke.  Earn enough points, you may be allowed into the TV room - more points yet to turn on the TV.  Etc...

They are not abusive, but expect discipline and drill to be of the HIGHEST standard. 

cliffy.

 

[PTE Gruending]

But really, what are they going to do if you refuse to cooperate? I am sure that anyone sent their for a moderate amount of time will not be pursuing a long/prestigious career in the Forces. What about releasing while being sent/in DB?

 

[Sig_Des]

Refuse to cooperate, disciplinary action.

And keep in mind, getting out of the forces is possible, but probly cuz they kick you out after you do your term in the db.

You have to realize, you have to do something pretty serious to get sent there, and it's under the military code of discipline and justice.

You have to accept that for all of us in the military, certain actions in civy street may get you a slap on the wrist, but in the forces, things may be taken a lot more seriously, otherwise, there's a breakdown in disipline

 

[Gayson]

I'm pretty sure During BMQ we were told that if choose to discharge while at Club ed or before going, you would be allowed to do so, but would still have to complete the jail time at club ed.

I'm meeting up with a couple of buddies from BMQ later today, I'll ask them if they remember this.

 

[Gayson]

My buddy didn't remember, so I looked it up in the QR&O's

I couldn't find anywhere saying wether a member could or could not release to avoid imprisonment.

However I found something interesting.  An Officer can be inprisoned, but cannot be put into detention.  according to 104.1 http://www.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/qr_o/vol2/ch104_e.asp#104.03

So, what is the difference between inprisonment and detention?

 

[Highland Laddie]

My buddy didn't remember, so I looked it up in the QR&O's

I couldn't find anywhere saying wether a member could or could not release to avoid imprisonment.

However I found something interesting.   An Officer can be inprisoned, but cannot be put into detention.   according to 104.1 http://www.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/qr_o/vol2/ch104_e.asp#104.03

So, what is the difference between inprisonment and detention?

I'm no member of AJAG, but I'll try to remember from my O courses. My educated guess here is that for officers 99% of offences that can land you in jail automatically go to court marshall, whereas for a troop you can be sentenced to detention at summary trial. I believe WO / MWO / CWO also fall in with the officers on this point (ie go to court martial). Of course, if any one knows the real answer (perhaps from experience  ), maybe someone can let us know.

 

[Jarnhamar]

In kingston there is a soldier who is currently in the MP cells. Apparently she thought she would screw the system and claimed/accepted money for putting her 3 (?) kids in daycare while she was on her course when he husband or ex husband was watching them. Shes spending a week or something in cells then heading out to club ed for a month or something.

The thing im wondering about is that I'm told because shes a female  (and on suicide watch i believe) she has to be watched by other females of the same rank SO the place where she worked (im trying not to give away too much info even though it was an open trial) was drained of the female privates who work there. They have to do 12 hour shifts sitting outside of her cell and escort her to the bath room and whatever else.

Is that not one of the stupidest things ever?  Because this girl lied to the army and stole money, people from her work place have to have THEIR lives screwed around with.(I would have a serious hate on for this individual)
I know the army is all crazy about guys not searching girls but the guards can only be the same rank as well? Whats the big deal behind that? Shouldn't the military police be guarding their prisoners and not some privates from a support trade?

 

[Gayson]

I didn't know only privates could be guards.

That seems pretty stupid to me.

 

[NavyGrunt]

I know the army is all crazy about guys not searching girls but the guards can only be the same rank as well? Whats the big deal behind that? Shouldn't the military police be guarding their prisoners and not some privates from a support trade?

Thats an interesting point. They certainly have the manpower at certain bases. Its not just the army. The RCMP as well will not have a man search a woman(as well as most other agencies). I've searched women and its not a fun time. I have only done so when it was impossible to have another woman search. But in those cases I find another woman who is bound by law to STFU(like a nurse) and she watches me. Its worked so far. I dont understand the "rank" thing. But the gender makes sense for searching but not for observing a "visitor"

I had a buddy(my doorman partner) who did some time in Club Ed 10 years ago and he had to earn the right to talk and smoke. He as well said he would rather die then go back. He wouldn't elaborate but he was their for assaulting a superior. It sounds to me like its run the way civvie jail should be... ;D

 

[Jarnhamar]

I know someone who was forced to search a female once. He tried to refuse but was ordered to anyways. Some time later it was brought up in a sexual harassment case. Lucky for him the female didn't consider the fact that there was 2 captians, a master corporal and another private as a witness present and she was caught lying through her teeth.

He as well said he would rather die then go back.

  Except for the odd hardened criminal who would go out shooting, isn't this a PERFECT mentality to instill on ex inmates?  The experience is SO shitty that unless their suicidal theirs a very small chance they will reoffend.

 

[NavyGrunt]

Well this indivdual was before this charge falling in with some bikers and doing some other stuff he shouldnt have after his time in the Club and a short stint in another provincial facility(provincial time again being harder than federal) he has his life on track, got a pardon and is in the air force. He's a decent human being- and being unwilling to go back to jail is what set him right.So I believe that it works to a degree. Fear for men without scruples works well. The problem comes when we have a system that doesnt recognize the need for different styles,

 

[KevinB]

Lets just say it sucks...

Trust me  :-[

Yes the point system (coloured tags) is still in effect.

The Guards at CFSPDB (Canadian Forces Service Prison and Detention Barracks) are from all trades - min rank Cpl. and they do the DB course prior to being employed.

It is nowhere like it used to be 10+ years ago - but it is still and unpleasant place to reside.

Everything is done at the double quick time, Staff.
Lights out is at 2100 and beleive me you are bagged - non stop cleaning parades, inspections, lectures and drill classes.
Meals are ate at attention in silence (the Guards bring meal from the Garrison Mess from a meal scheule you pick out the week prior).

The 1951 pattern webbign withs its painted over brass is still there.
Officers get the same treatment.

The only difference is between service detainees and service prisoners (they get different wings).  Detaineers are obvious pers sentecned to periods of detention while Service Prisoners are sentecned to Prison (90+ days and typically the boot).

 

[Acorn]

Kevin,

Do detainees/prisoners still have to strip the paint from the brass grommets and buckles on the webbing, the Brasso cans and the Kiwi cans and polish all to a high standard?

Acorn

 

[KevinB]

Yup wrt the webbing...  HINT the paint - it's water soluable [found that out the last day when I got to repaint my webbing pack etc.]

Cans can keep their paint - but the ever present bucket needs shinning too.

It really sucks being a Patrica in DB with all the brass accoutrements and watching an Air Force guy don his tunic after spending 20secs getting it ready.

Brasso works WAY better than Silvo for the bucket... [Silvo is too pastey]

Other than the demise of the EYE the newer one (DB) has the same idea.



No Mike I have no more CS...  :crybaby:

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Hey Kevin what did you do?

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Cliffy433 there were a few things during that tour that could have landed people in DB.

 

[KevinB]

Hey Kevin what did you do?

Stupid in a non-stupid zone.
  ;D

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