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Announcements & Decisions on Tactical & Stratigic Airlift (Fall 2005 and 2006)
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Jarnhamar
Army.ca Myth
- Reaction score
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I can see it now
Hours before that no confidence vote the liberals "somehow" come up with the money that was lost somewhere and purchase these suckers, thus gaining the favor of CF personal everywhere!
*cheers*
Hey but where did that money come from?
Quiet you!
Hours before that no confidence vote the liberals "somehow" come up with the money that was lost somewhere and purchase these suckers, thus gaining the favor of CF personal everywhere!
*cheers*
Hey but where did that money come from?
Quiet you!
- Reaction score
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If only somehow we could get every Canadian Forces personell to vote Conservative! ;D
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Postings to Goose Bay??
(see the Army.ca editorial)
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- Points
- 410
Call me jaded but I don't trust any politician right now.
Libs are a known quantity that, recently, have provided some relief for the forces.
I have no faith in the NDP or the Bloc.
When I think about the PCs..... I think about their defence critic, that much touted retired General... who has been giving the CF grief about such things as grenades and the like... I think about Mr Harper..... and
I just walk away while shaking my head
Why is it I get this feeling that we're about to get screwed (again)?
Libs are a known quantity that, recently, have provided some relief for the forces.
I have no faith in the NDP or the Bloc.
When I think about the PCs..... I think about their defence critic, that much touted retired General... who has been giving the CF grief about such things as grenades and the like... I think about Mr Harper..... and
I just walk away while shaking my head
Why is it I get this feeling that we're about to get screwed (again)?
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
well................. And so the circus starts!!
Local manufacturers want to have a crack at the projects but don't necessarily have the expertise or an actual product they can propose or deliver.
The CDS & the current Gov't were ready to obtain and deliver something we want and need right this instant.... and it's being put on the back burner.......... Cheez!!!
Local manufacturers want to have a crack at the projects but don't necessarily have the expertise or an actual product they can propose or deliver.
The CDS & the current Gov't were ready to obtain and deliver something we want and need right this instant.... and it's being put on the back burner.......... Cheez!!!
- Reaction score
- 1,123
- Points
- 1,060
There are some bad optics with this plan in that it appears that it was literally thrown together by the CAS and the CDS and they may have come off a little too strongly. I'm surprised, and pleased, that Graham stood by them (if that report is accurate).
The biggest problem I have with saying "no" is that there is no useful "made in Canada" alternative. I think this sort of reaction can be expected from Canadian shipbuilders to the purchase of a foreign built BHS as well.
A strong prime minister needs to step up to the plate and lead on these issues -make the tough decisions and do the right thing. Unfortunately, there is no such thing on the horizon.
I think yesterday was a pretty good indicator of the magnitude of the job that lies before Hillier and Graham. I hate to say it, but the only way to get this resolved will be a liberla majority government, because no other party has a chance in hell of governing.
Cheers.
The biggest problem I have with saying "no" is that there is no useful "made in Canada" alternative. I think this sort of reaction can be expected from Canadian shipbuilders to the purchase of a foreign built BHS as well.
A strong prime minister needs to step up to the plate and lead on these issues -make the tough decisions and do the right thing. Unfortunately, there is no such thing on the horizon.
I think yesterday was a pretty good indicator of the magnitude of the job that lies before Hillier and Graham. I hate to say it, but the only way to get this resolved will be a liberla majority government, because no other party has a chance in hell of governing.
Cheers.
- Reaction score
- 911
- Points
- 1,010
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20051116.wxmilitary16/BNStory/National/
Fast Track Military Purchase On Hold
By MICHAEL DEN TANDT
Wednesday, November 16, 2005 Posted at 6:08 AM EST
From Wednesday's Globe and Mail
Ottawa â †The Liberal government has indefinitely shelved a Defence Department proposal to buy badly needed new military aircraft, including transports and helicopters for the troops in Afghanistan, because it has been deemed too politically risky
"I think there were some people making comparisons to Kim Campbell and helicopters and last-minute decisions, and they decided this might not be such a great idea," a source familiar with the situation said.
In 1993, the Liberals, led by Jean Chrétien, reduced Ms. Campbell's Conservatives to two seats in Parliament after a campaign during which Mr. Chrétien railed against a Tory plan to spend $4.8-billion to replace the military's 42-year-old Sea Kings.
After the election Mr. Chrétien ordered the helicopter contract revoked, at a cost of $500-million. Twelve years later, 28 new Sikorsky Cyclone helicopters are on order but the first is not due for delivery until 2008.
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The helicopter saga has become anathema for Defence Department officials, who must mount a combat mission to Afghanistan in the new year, but are saddled with obsolete equipment in many areas of operation, particularly air transport.
Last week, it emerged that Chief of Defence Staff Rick Hillier had persuaded Defence Minister Bill Graham to implement a fast-track procurement process that would effectively allow the military to determine what aircraft best meet its needs and buy them, at a cost of $12.2-billion. All the money had been previously budgeted.
To this end the Defence Department drafted a number of very specific performance requirements for transport aircraft, search-and-rescue planes and medium- to heavy-lift helicopters, and invited industry to respond.
In the case of the helicopters and transports, the requirements were widely understood to rule out all but two aircraft -- the Chinook CH-47 and the Hercules C130J. A senior Defence Department official confirmed last week that these aircraft were favoured, while insisting that the department remained open to other options, should better ones present themselves.
"The whole idea is to more rapidly get the troops the equipment they need," the official said. Waiting for several years before making a decision simply puts money in defence lobbyists' pockets, the official added.
Prime Minister Paul Martin has repeatedly vowed to "get the troops the equipment they need." Sources said that until last week, both he and Mr. Graham had tacitly approved Gen. Hillier's proposal.
But a report about the plan in this newspaper last Friday ignited a flurry of weekend phone calls and e-mails, ranging from concerned to angry, at senior levels of the government, sources said.
The upshot was that, although the procurement plan was discussed as scheduled on Monday by the cabinet's powerful operations committee, it will go no further for now.
"Hillier's finding out that there are more factors at play here than simply coming up with a good idea," said Scott Taylor, editor of the military magazine Esprit de Corps. "At that big a dollar value, politics plays huge."
Indeed, the Prime Minister's Office appears to have washed its hands of the idea. A spokesman for Mr. Martin said yesterday that he knew nothing about the procurement plan and pointedly referred all media queries to the Defence Department.
Mr. Taylor said Gen. Hillier's plan is simply a common-sense approach to an intractable problem. "All the neglect of the past, everything rusting out simultaneously, means that no matter what kind of military we're going to have, even just having trucks and helmets, we need everything, all at once. It requires a huge outlay of cash."
Conservative defence critic Gordon O'Connor accused the Liberals of hurriedly trying to correct more than 10 years worth of mistakes. "We have the oldest Hercules [aircraft] on the planet," he said. "They've known for 10 or 12 years that they're old and need to be replaced."
A defence industry source said the Defence Department should have pitched the aircraft purchase to cabinet separately, rather than as a whole. The most controversial aspect of the plan, he said, is the fixed-wing search-and-rescue component, where Canadian firms -- including EADS Canada Inc. and Bombardier Inc. -- have made what they deem to be competitive proposals.
Fast Track Military Purchase On Hold
By MICHAEL DEN TANDT
Wednesday, November 16, 2005 Posted at 6:08 AM EST
From Wednesday's Globe and Mail
Ottawa â †The Liberal government has indefinitely shelved a Defence Department proposal to buy badly needed new military aircraft, including transports and helicopters for the troops in Afghanistan, because it has been deemed too politically risky
"I think there were some people making comparisons to Kim Campbell and helicopters and last-minute decisions, and they decided this might not be such a great idea," a source familiar with the situation said.
In 1993, the Liberals, led by Jean Chrétien, reduced Ms. Campbell's Conservatives to two seats in Parliament after a campaign during which Mr. Chrétien railed against a Tory plan to spend $4.8-billion to replace the military's 42-year-old Sea Kings.
After the election Mr. Chrétien ordered the helicopter contract revoked, at a cost of $500-million. Twelve years later, 28 new Sikorsky Cyclone helicopters are on order but the first is not due for delivery until 2008.
Advertisements
Click Here
click here
The helicopter saga has become anathema for Defence Department officials, who must mount a combat mission to Afghanistan in the new year, but are saddled with obsolete equipment in many areas of operation, particularly air transport.
Last week, it emerged that Chief of Defence Staff Rick Hillier had persuaded Defence Minister Bill Graham to implement a fast-track procurement process that would effectively allow the military to determine what aircraft best meet its needs and buy them, at a cost of $12.2-billion. All the money had been previously budgeted.
To this end the Defence Department drafted a number of very specific performance requirements for transport aircraft, search-and-rescue planes and medium- to heavy-lift helicopters, and invited industry to respond.
In the case of the helicopters and transports, the requirements were widely understood to rule out all but two aircraft -- the Chinook CH-47 and the Hercules C130J. A senior Defence Department official confirmed last week that these aircraft were favoured, while insisting that the department remained open to other options, should better ones present themselves.
"The whole idea is to more rapidly get the troops the equipment they need," the official said. Waiting for several years before making a decision simply puts money in defence lobbyists' pockets, the official added.
Prime Minister Paul Martin has repeatedly vowed to "get the troops the equipment they need." Sources said that until last week, both he and Mr. Graham had tacitly approved Gen. Hillier's proposal.
But a report about the plan in this newspaper last Friday ignited a flurry of weekend phone calls and e-mails, ranging from concerned to angry, at senior levels of the government, sources said.
The upshot was that, although the procurement plan was discussed as scheduled on Monday by the cabinet's powerful operations committee, it will go no further for now.
"Hillier's finding out that there are more factors at play here than simply coming up with a good idea," said Scott Taylor, editor of the military magazine Esprit de Corps. "At that big a dollar value, politics plays huge."
Indeed, the Prime Minister's Office appears to have washed its hands of the idea. A spokesman for Mr. Martin said yesterday that he knew nothing about the procurement plan and pointedly referred all media queries to the Defence Department.
Mr. Taylor said Gen. Hillier's plan is simply a common-sense approach to an intractable problem. "All the neglect of the past, everything rusting out simultaneously, means that no matter what kind of military we're going to have, even just having trucks and helmets, we need everything, all at once. It requires a huge outlay of cash."
Conservative defence critic Gordon O'Connor accused the Liberals of hurriedly trying to correct more than 10 years worth of mistakes. "We have the oldest Hercules [aircraft] on the planet," he said. "They've known for 10 or 12 years that they're old and need to be replaced."
A defence industry source said the Defence Department should have pitched the aircraft purchase to cabinet separately, rather than as a whole. The most controversial aspect of the plan, he said, is the fixed-wing search-and-rescue component, where Canadian firms -- including EADS Canada Inc. and Bombardier Inc. -- have made what they deem to be competitive proposals.
- Reaction score
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- Points
- 430
This is only one of the things put on hold by the Lieberals. Look at all the Tax Breaks that they announced two days ago, and now plan on putting on hold until after the Election. Looks to me more like a carrot that they are holding over the heads of the Canadian Voter. Don't tell me it isn't "Vote Buying".
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It's too bad the military isn't allowed to protest. One tactic I have put some thought into is dumping a Sea King on the Parliament lawn. And when they tell us we have to move it we can simply shrug our shoulders and say: "It took us an hour to get it here so it will be at least 30 hours before we can fix it and move it".
- Reaction score
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- 210
here's a video link on the subject on CTV.CA
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20051116/aircraft_purchase_051116/20051116?hub=Canada
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20051116/aircraft_purchase_051116/20051116?hub=Canada
Haggis
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
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- Points
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If any of you seriously think that even a penny of the propsed $13B or the new $12.2 B aircraft funding will actually see the light of day, you are quite deluded.
The minority Lieberals promised that $13B knowing full well that they would never be held to it. Why do you think that it was forecast to kick in more than a year down the road? The Lieberals were well aware that the Gomery Inquiry would result in the fall of thier minority government long before thay committed to this $13B.
The next election will be fought on a policy of fiscal restraint and responsibility by all concerned, under the shadow of Adscam. Health and social programs will again take centre stage.
If the Lieberals win a majority, all previous bets are off. All previous promises broken.
If the Preservatives win a majority they will claim that the Lieberals so mishandled the public purse that they wil not be able to keep any of thier election promises (including those made by O'Connor) until they clean up the Lieberal mess. This, they will say, will likely take two terms. (Doubt this? Remember McGuinty in Ontario.)
If the Preservatives win a minority, they will be as hamstrung as the Fibberals are now.
NDP and Bloc are not a factor except to steal votes from the other twogangs parties, this forcing a slim majority or minority government.
All parties know that the CF is a silent majority, forbidden by statute and culture from criticizing the government or becoming politically involved in an election. Even if the CDS were to speak out during the campaign, he'd be sacked and replaced sometime in early 2006 by a more acquiescent "leader", more in tune with the "soft power" foreign policy approach favoured by the Blue Helmet Mafias that influence our defence and foreign policy makers.
Get out of the dream world, folks. Go back to hoarding your regimental nickels and dimes. You'll need them.
The minority Lieberals promised that $13B knowing full well that they would never be held to it. Why do you think that it was forecast to kick in more than a year down the road? The Lieberals were well aware that the Gomery Inquiry would result in the fall of thier minority government long before thay committed to this $13B.
The next election will be fought on a policy of fiscal restraint and responsibility by all concerned, under the shadow of Adscam. Health and social programs will again take centre stage.
If the Lieberals win a majority, all previous bets are off. All previous promises broken.
If the Preservatives win a majority they will claim that the Lieberals so mishandled the public purse that they wil not be able to keep any of thier election promises (including those made by O'Connor) until they clean up the Lieberal mess. This, they will say, will likely take two terms. (Doubt this? Remember McGuinty in Ontario.)
If the Preservatives win a minority, they will be as hamstrung as the Fibberals are now.
NDP and Bloc are not a factor except to steal votes from the other two
All parties know that the CF is a silent majority, forbidden by statute and culture from criticizing the government or becoming politically involved in an election. Even if the CDS were to speak out during the campaign, he'd be sacked and replaced sometime in early 2006 by a more acquiescent "leader", more in tune with the "soft power" foreign policy approach favoured by the Blue Helmet Mafias that influence our defence and foreign policy makers.
Get out of the dream world, folks. Go back to hoarding your regimental nickels and dimes. You'll need them.
J
jmackenzie_15
Guest
your words hurt me haggis :-\
I never considered any of that.... crap.
Just when you think the military might get a much needed boost
Hopefully it still comes to fruition but... you make some good points.
I never considered any of that.... crap.
Just when you think the military might get a much needed boost
Hopefully it still comes to fruition but... you make some good points.
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Good points indeed. Is it possible that if our nation's people show more of their support for our CF, there may be a consideration for a bigger military budget? Perhaps an employment boom will open their eyes? Or maybe... more promotional material in society? My thoughts on the subject. 
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