An Arctic Army without Arctic Boots, only in Canada (From: Brown Boots)

[GK .Dundas]

Maybe I'm mistaken but we really are a G 7 country, aren't we?

 

[jeffb]

I've been waiting for replacement boots since April now....

 

[OldSolduer]

I've been waiting for replacement boots since April now....

And that is unacceptable, yet we, the senior leadership shuffle the deck chairs, navel gaze and wonder why the hell soldiers release.....

 

[The Bread Guy]

Using work boots for some portion of training has been common at various times for several decades and nothing to get exited over. A decent and not too expensive pair of work boots is fine for the classroom and parade square portions of training. Usually something tan with a heal like the old combat or ankle boots.

<sarcasm> Hey, maybe we could do like the Ukrainian army and ask taxpayers to donate a few bucks for stuff like this? </sarcasm>  :

 

[blacktriangle]

Can someone explain (in simple terms) why these soldiers are not getting LPO footwear as MJP had suggested?

…and I agree with GW et al why are we throwing my tax dollars away to these hell holes (and inviting the people here) when we can't even fund pathetic items for our military?

Time to stop recruiting for a few years until we get enough equipment back from releases. Let's start with some Generals and Admirals.

 

[George Wallace]

Time to stop recruiting for a few years until we get enough equipment back from releases. Let's start with some Generals and Admirals.

Cutting back on recruiting has been shown to create more problems down the road with loss of knowledge and experience, and skill fade in numerous Trades.

Most Senior officers would no longer have reams of equipment to return, so although a necessity to trim the fat, it will result in no significant increase of items on the shelves of our QMs.

 

[blacktriangle]

Cutting back on recruiting has been shown to create more problems down the road with loss of knowledge and experience, and skill fade in numerous Trades.

Most Senior officers would no longer have reams of equipment to return, so although a necessity to trim the fat, it will result in no significant increase of items on the shelves of our QMs.

I'm keenly aware of both points and meant my post more in jest - but honestly what IS the point of recruiting if we can't equip people? You speak of problems down the road - but what about our problems now? (NO BOOTS?!) Succession planning and depth of experience mean nothing when we lack even the most basic of equipment.

Someone is to blame for this issue - and we both know it is not a Pte, Sgt, or Capt. Even if it is not a General or Admiral who is responsible for this, they are the ones on the executive floor of this hollow organization. Since the PS Bureaucrats seem untouchable, and the Politicians care little, who else can I blame but the very top of the chain of command?

I know we have incredibly skilled and hard working GOFOs in our military (some even on this site) that have invested their entire lives in the military. I'm sure issues like this sicken them - and I challenge them to do whatever it takes to rectify the problem.

 

[MJP]

Can someone explain (in simple terms) why these soldiers are not getting LPO footwear as MJP had suggested?

Simple answer is no one knows based on internet postings.  Not an exhuastive list but it could be a failure of the supporting supply org (SSO) to realize that or leverage all options availiable to them, the SSO may have tried to LPO and were told no for any number of reasons or the soldier in this case misunderstood what was told to them and made up their own intrepretation (which happens).

 

[quadrapiper]

<sarcasm> Hey, maybe we could do like the Ukrainian army and ask taxpayers to donate a few bucks for stuff like this? </sarcasm>  :

Was that not the "traditional" approach to kitting and otherwise raising militia units? The biggest donor gets Hon Col and a seat at mess dinners?

Could really expand on that - $1000 gets you Hon 2Lt, and so on. Works for arts groups!

 

[OldSolduer]

Simple answer is no one knows based on internet postings.  Not an exhuastive list but it could be a failure of the supporting supply org (SSO) to realize that or leverage all options availiable to them, the SSO may have tried to LPO and were told no for any number of reasons or the soldier in this case misunderstood what was told to them and made up their own intrepretation (which happens).

A CANFORGEN was released a few years ago prohibiting COs from purchasing operational kit. Maybe this included boots.

 

[MJP]

A CANFORGEN was released a few years ago prohibiting COs from purchasing operational kit. Maybe this included boots.

It does but in ths case the SSO there had other mechanisms they can utilize to get boots for folks including LPO.  They do involve some staff work and in some cases command involvement but we should be able to get fills boots. 

 

[Colin Parkinson]

A CANFORGEN was released a few years ago prohibiting COs from purchasing operational kit. Maybe this included boots.

yes can't be embarrassing the system by circumventing it and actually getting the kit. to explain the supply system to recruits I drew a dot, surrounded by 3 rings and a stick figure on the outside of the rings. I explained that the stick figure was us and that the dot was the item needed/wanted and the 3 rings were the layers you needed to get through to get it. Back in the days of handfilled out Form 2302's

 

[GK .Dundas]

Was that not the "traditional" approach to kitting and otherwise raising militia units? The biggest donor gets Hon Col and a seat at mess dinners?

Could really expand on that - $1000 gets you Hon 2Lt, and so on. Works for arts groups!

Didn't Conrad Black when he was  an Hon. Lt. Col offer /threaten to purchase AFV's for the Pri Res  unit he belonged to. I'll bet that would of caused  a few Coronaries at good old Fort Fumble on the Rideiu .

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Shades of McNaughton and the E8's?  8)

Mind you had some bright Hon. Col. bought VBL's in the 90's for the Armoured Reserve, you could bet they would have all ended up in Bosnia with nary a thank you or "Great idea you had".

Now if I had oodles of millions of dollars I might just buy back some of the 105mm Howitzers we sold to Vietnam and get them refitted in South Korea and re-equip my unit again as a full battery and purchase a couple of real 4x4's with a box on the back for the main and alternate CP's 

 

[GK .Dundas]

I always thought the VBL was a perfect fit for the reserves combined with some cougars it might made for an effective force  both for training and some limited operational uses.
  You know one really has to wonder how we are supposed to be able to procure ships and aircraft costing billions and we can't even provide boot and mucluks to our troops ? What annoys me the most aside from all the money wasted is denying the unit C.O. s the authority to solve the problem themselves.

 

[blacktriangle]

They do involve some staff work

Translation: no LPO boots will be forthcoming.

 

[OldSolduer]

Translation: no LPO boots will be forthcoming.

So what is the solution?

This situation is unacceptable.

 

[Brasidas]

So what is the solution?

This situation is unacceptable.

That battleschool shuts down until the powers that be recognize the seriousness of the problem and deal with it.

 

[MJP]

So what is the solution?

This situation is unacceptable.

The solution is people at all levels just do their job IAW with the direction given.

From the Supply Administration Manual

5.5 Clothing and Personnel Equipment Para1.15

Clothing, including footwear and equipment that is normally nationally procured in accordance with (IAW) DND specifications and requirements, cannot be purchased locally unless authorized by the applicable Life Cycle Materiel Manager (LCMM).

The thing is not everyone knows what the rules are and where to even look and if they do know then actually taking action.


The thing is that boots are one of thoses issues that get everyone's hackles up.  Everyone is special snowflake and needs something special so it makes it hard to get approval when someone wants something normal to fulfill a stock shortage.  The SSO and the CoC of soldiers need to be loud in directing their needs up to higher formations.  I have seen stick up the @ss LCMM reverse their tune when commanders get involved.  On the flip side soldiers need to keep their COC informed of issues, often issues fester for so long that when they explode every one is in crisis mode and the real problem isn't solved.  At the end of the day until we get a boot type allowance we will see issues like these.  It is the nature of the beast considering that with the seemingly never ending special requirements we write into contracts and regional buy Canada BS, no one really wants to deal with us in a timely manner without extra cash.   

 

[daftandbarmy]

This would be a good subject for the opposition to bring up in the House of Commons.  :stirpot: