An Arctic Army without Arctic Boots, only in Canada (From: Brown Boots)

[cupper]

You all realize that the new arctic kit will arrive just in time for global warming to render them obsolete.

 

[ballz]

Conversely, lots of people still like the 64-pattern ruck, and my old trail snowshoes and mukluks work just fine.  :nod:

Especially the frame...

Funny you mention that, I saw the same PowerPoint that those pictures are from, and they have a picture of a Mystery Ranch rucksack in there...

My impression of those slides is that it was somebody's gucci kit wish list, but given the way our procurement system works we may end up with something that looks kind of like a Neo overboot, but it will be made by a different company that "met the specifications" for the lowest price. It will be heavy, probably made of rubber, and in 4 weeks or the first time you wear them in a swamp (whichever comes first) will no longer be waterproof.

I am guessing if we try to copy a Mystery Ranch rucksack it will be 30 lbs heavier (empty), have 20% of the life span / reliability, and probably have something as equally unimpressive as the daisy chain system on it.

 

[Infanteer]

As for the reserves, I have no knowledge of what they end up costing us...but I do feel that certain jobs (Armd, SIGINT/EW...various techs etc) may best be left to the Reg F due to training times and equipment shortages.

Last budget I saw had the Army Reserves allocation to all L2 budgets totaling 310 million.

 

[MJP]

My impression of those slides is that it was somebody's gucci kit wish list, but given the way our procurement system works we may end up with something that looks kind of like a Neo overboot, but it will be made by a different company that "met the specifications" for the lowest price. It will be heavy, probably made of rubber, and in 4 weeks or the first time you wear them in a swamp (whichever comes first) will no longer be waterproof.

That may very well be the case, as when we contract for something we don't ask for "NEO" boot or "DEWALT" power tools but rather give a set of requirements that the product must meet.  We can't make it look like we are writing the requirement so only one company can possibly make the cut.  There are exceptions to the rule (UOR, justified sole source, etc) but generally the process plays out that way.  The other problem is larger projects often get politicized and get given to a company as a regional offset or to give business to a Canadian company.

The thing that is in our favour sometimes is it isn't lowest bidder, but lowest compliant. Someone LPOing or running a project can pick the more expensive option because it fits the need better or may very well be less expensive in the long run.  But that means we need to define the need properly.  A poorly written SOW/SOR (Statement of Work/Requirements) often gives the purchasers little leeway.  If that happens and we go with the higher bid because it fits better then it becomes grounds for a compliant by a lower bidder.

 

[dapaterson]

Last budget I saw had the Army Reserves allocation to all L2 budgets totaling 310 million.

... and the Reg F pay & allowances don't show at all.  Because if someone sees that $1.5B*, they might get ideas for other things to do with that money.

*$1.5B is my rough approximation of the Army's share of the ~$5B/year in Reg F P&A across the CAF.  The Army Res $310M includes both P&A and O&M; the $1.5B is only pay.  There are hundreds of millions more in O&M.  These also exclude things like ammo, spares and clothing, that are not paid out of the Army budget for either Regs or Res.

 

[dapaterson]

  If that happens and we go with the higher bid because it fits better then it becomes grounds for a compliant by a lower bidder.

Yes, if the lower bidder is compliant, they have a valid complaint.

 

[McG]

The thing that is in our favour sometimes is it isn't lowest bidder, but lowest compliant.

Lowest compliant is fine for simple things.  Capital projects to introduce new equipment should tend toward selection criteria that allow us to spend more to get better while protecting us from paying a premium to get the top-end product which is only marginally better than its much less expensive nearest competitor.

Lowest Compliant limits the mileage that we get for our dollar.  Highest Scoring, Point Rated typically leads to throwing money away.  I like Highest Scoring, Point Rated Per Dollar; It requires more effort from the project staff, but it gets us more for each dollar we spend.

… but this is getting into the area of a different thread:  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/26594.0.html

 

[acen]

Especially the frame...

Funny you mention that, I saw the same PowerPoint that those pictures are from, and they have a picture of a Mystery Ranch rucksack in there...

I am guessing if we try to copy a Mystery Ranch rucksack it will be 30 lbs heavier (empty), have 20% of the life span / reliability, and probably have something as equally unimpressive as the daisy chain system on it.

You may be surprised to hear that DLR is seriously looking at Mystery Ranch packs and that it's not just a gucci kit list. MR has already provided the frame (MR NICE Frame) for the C16 Optics bag and for many other organizations that fall under the CF's wing, so don't discount a genuine MR pack being in the realm of the possible (barring canadian procurement law etc etc).

 

[Loachman]

You all realize that the new arctic kit will arrive just in time for global warming to render them obsolete.

Which will be sometime after the coming Little Ice Age, so, what, one or two centuries hence?

You win Cynic (Realist?) of the Decade.

 

[rick7475]

Hello,

My son is currently taking his BMQ on the weekends in the reserves over the winter. The course is 60+ recruits and they do not have enough boots for everyone. He has to wear a pair of worn cadet boots that have holes in the bottom. Since he is infantry, and as a former infantry NCO, I know he needs good boots. The MWO of the course will allow them to purchase civilian boots for the course. There is a CANEX in town where some of the other older recruits are buying some pairs there (my son is 17 still in high school). My question is what are the best civilian equivalent boots we can buy for him, either at the CANEX (limited supply) or other places like Sale or Marks Work Warehouse. Thank you for any recommendations. 

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Hello,

My son is currently taking his BMQ on the weekends in the reserves over the winter. The course is 60+ recruits and they do not have enough boots for everyone. He has to wear a pair of worn cadet boots that have holes in the bottom. Since he is infantry, and as a former infantry NCO, I know he needs good boots. The MWO of the course will allow them to purchase civilian boots for the course. There is a CANEX in town where some of the other older recruits are buying some pairs there (my son is 17 still in high school). My question is what are the best civilian equivalent boots we can buy for him, either at the CANEX (limited supply) or other places like Sale or Marks Work Warehouse. Thank you for any recommendations.

http://www.marks.com/shop/en/marks-marksdefaultsalescatalog/footwear/mens-footwear/mens-winter-boots

Take a look at the Wind River Transitional @ $104.

I'm going to assume the Crown is going to reimburse for kit that's required but can't be issued?

I'd also question on what authority the Directing Staff has to issue such direction. If someone ends up with frostbite, because their boots aren't sufficient, who accepts the blame?

 

[LightFighter]

If all he needs to combat boots, I would stick with something like SWATs, Rocky S2Vs, Danners or similar brands. Those Windriver boots just seem like they would draw the wrong kind of attention due to the look/style of them and they aren't solid black.

Is your son only short combat boots, or is he short mukluks as well?

 

[rick7475]

He is short boots. There is no reimbursement. He has mukluks. The SWAT ones have been mentioned before, but I will check the others ones. Thanks very much for the suggestions. Solid black is not a concern because when I picked him up other recruits had brown or tan colored boots. He has a shitload of other equipment, including the newest CADPAT with the bigger flag. Just not boots. I really appreciate everyone's help here on these boards.

 

[daftandbarmy]

He is short boots. There is no reimbursement. He has mukluks. The SWAT ones have been mentioned before, but I will check the others ones. Thanks very much for the suggestions. Solid black is not a concern because when I picked him up other recruits had brown or tan colored boots. He has a shitload of other equipment, including the newest CADPAT with the bigger flag. Just not boots. I really appreciate everyone's help here on these boards.

So we are unable to provide our troops with the most important item of personal kit: boots?

That is pretty Effed up. I apologize on behalf of all the people in the CF who give a crap!

FYI, these are awesome boots: http://www.ajbrooks.com/qs/product/40/6842/139808/0/0

 

[PuckChaser]

So we are unable to provide our troops with the most important item of personal kit: boots?

It's been that way for at least 18 months, if not longer. How someone in the larger Chain of Command hasn't made this their largest priority, saddens me greatly.

 

[OldSolduer]

He is short boots. There is no reimbursement. He has mukluks. The SWAT ones have been mentioned before, but I will check the others ones. Thanks very much for the suggestions. Solid black is not a concern because when I picked him up other recruits had brown or tan colored boots. He has a shitload of other equipment, including the newest CADPAT with the bigger flag. Just not boots. I really appreciate everyone's help here on these boards.

This is not right and unacceptable. A person who has signed the line and joined should not have to purchase kit. Period. This is crap.

Personally I wear Danner boots for comfort and the price is reasonable.

 

[GnyHwy]

You never mentioned where he was doing his training i.e. prairie winters are too cold for regular boots.

If he is in a moderate climate, regular boots should be fine, but I would consider goretex socks as well.

I'll echo the comments about not having the right kit issued.  Complete crap, and someone needs to get real busy ordering the required kit.  I hear Purolator has an effective delivery service.

 

[Pusser]

If you end up buying the boots, I would recommend submitting a claim for reimbursement.  If it's refused, get it in writing, and then submit an application for Redress of Grievance.  It may take a while, but in my experience, that is the sort of grievance that is likely to be redressed.  Just make sure everything is documented.  The most important thing is to show that he is required to attend training and that he has not been issued the proper kit.  Getting a response that he doesn't "have" to attend training (i.e. resulting in not being able to advance his qualifications) would likely not be viewed as acceptable by the Initial Authority (and definitely not by the Final Authority).

 

[OldSolduer]

DND and the CAF - we as a collective entity need to stop worrying about shiny toys, bells, whistle and as Mr. Campbell puts it "gee gaws" and worry about the soldier, sailor or airmen. The leadership should be wringing their hands over things like this and not over new toys.

 

[The Bread Guy]

A Canadian recruit has to pay for his own main pair of boots?

More than just a facepalm ....

Maybe the Minister of Defence (not the CDS, not the bureaucrats) needs to be reminded of this statement attributed to him in a news release less than a week ago (also attached if link doesn't work):

"Our Government understands the importance of providing our men and women in uniform with the tools they need to excel at their jobs while on training, exercise, or operations."

Apparently, the Government does not.

Epic.  Fail.