A Year In, And Frustrated

[aesop081]

I am aiming to be an officer because I prefer intellectual or written tasks to practical ones.

You have no idea what NCMs do....do you ?

 

[dave.jones3]

Being a university student myself, I have considered going the Officer route. I have talked to 3 units in Edmonton, all have expressed a need for Jr. Officers. I was talking to a few Officers I know and a couple Recruiting NCO.

I have, for the time being, chosen to stay an extremely content NCM, enjoying the opportunities it has presented me with. I do enough "intellectual and written" stuff in class.

Cheers

 

[dirtnco]

And the bright red light tracks across the officers back. After alot of years of "doing this stuff"  young dumbass, I have been in the company of some great leaders , and some not so . You would make great boot blackener, only because it wears off after a bit and i can find more.

To the staff of this great page, moderate as you see fit 

 

[toyotatundra]

You have no idea what NCMs do....do you ?

I am only going by what the recruiters said in response to my specific questions.

If you have contrasting or additional information, I would be happy to learn from your experience.

 

[toyotatundra]

And the bright red light tracks across the officers back. After alot of years of "doing this stuff"  young dumbass

There's no reason for name calling.

You would make great boot blackener, only because it wears off after a bit and i can find more.

There's no reason for personal attacks.

 

[George Wallace]

toyotatundra

You are getting some of these responses because you have no concept of what you are talking about.  Please read more here and get a better feel for what it is to be a member of the CF.

 

[Pusser]

From the beginning of this thread to now, we have seen a significiant shift in attitude from the OP (toyotatundra), so I think it's unfair that some folks are chiming at this point to dump all over him for the things he said in the beginning.  He's recognized his mistake and is trying to move.  Perhaps we should let him?

Perhaps a lesson here for everybody is that we should read through an entire thread before commenting?  That way, we a) don't repeat what someone else has already said and b) don't look like a jerk for dumping on someone who has already corrected his mistake.

Now to comment on adminstrative versus practical work.  There indeed are some NCMs who do a lot of administrative type work, which can involve significant amounts of writing.  By the same token, there are officer classifications that do very little of it.  However, as a general rule, the NCM role is more practical in nature, while the officers role is more administrative.  It is also worth noting that administration and writing generally don't become part of the job for NCMs until they get to higher ranks and levels of responsibility, whereas for officers, it tends to start from the beginning.

 

[Good2Golf]

It is a rather unfortunate misconception that only officers perform duties requiring intellect or creating written products, or that NCMs only conduct "practical" tasks.  Intellect or personal aptitude is unique to neither commissioned nor non-commissioned members of the Forces.

If one is going to generalize, then the most detailed one should be is that NCMs may deal with greater specifics of tasks and that officers, particularly at the higher ranks, address issues in a more general (hint: especially by, you know...Generals) manner.

Let's look at it differently -- Do you want to be highly skilled and demonstrate exceptional control of a unique and specialized discipline with technical and interpersonal aspects to the critical employment of systems within that discipline?  If so, the NCM path is likely a very rewarding path to follow.  If being less involved in the intimate details of systems and working more on the stewardship of a branch or capability is to your liking and aptitude, then commissioned service may be the way to go.

Regards
G2G

 

[Fishbone Jones]

From the beginning of this thread to now, we have seen a significiant shift in attitude from the OP (toyotatundra), so I think it's unfair that some folks are chiming at this point to dump all over him for the things he said in the beginning.  He's recognized his mistake and is trying to move.  Perhaps we should let him?

Perhaps a lesson here for everybody is that we should read through an entire thread before commenting?  That way, we a) don't repeat what someone else has already said and b) don't look like a jerk for dumping on someone who has already corrected his mistake.

Now to comment on adminstrative versus practical work.  There indeed are some NCMs who do a lot of administrative type work, which can involve significant amounts of writing.  By the same token, there are officer classifications that do very little of it.  However, as a general rule, the NCM role is more practical in nature, while the officers role is more administrative.  It is also worth noting that administration and writing generally don't become part of the job for NCMs until they get to higher ranks and levels of responsibility, whereas for officers, it tends to start from the beginning.

However, there's the problem. He came in ignorant of the facts and full of himself. He got corrected, and seemed to turn a corner. Then he falls back to ground zero with idiotic comments about Officer\ NCM status again.

Perhaps the best lesson he could learn is just to STFU until such time as he's gained enough experience AND knowledge to form an intelligent opinion.

 

[jwtg]

However, there's the problem. He came in ignorant of the facts and full of himself. He got corrected, and seemed to turn a corner. Then he falls back to ground zero with idiotic comments about Officer\ NCM status again.

Perhaps the best lesson he could learn is just to STFU until such time as he's gained enough experience AND knowledge to form an intelligent opinion.

If ground zero is, as you described, 'ignorant of the facts and full of himself', then he's hardly fallen back to it.

[quote author=toyotatundra]I am only going by what the recruiters said in response to my specific questions.

If you have contrasting or additional information, I would be happy to learn from your experience.
[/quote]

Ignorant and arrogant is hardly the same as naive, and when the symptoms are different, often so are the remedies.  Maybe, drawing from your own experience of leadership, you could see that the shift in attitude has taken place in the OP and all that is required at this point is to help him become properly informed.

Or maybe you think it's more fun to do it your way.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Another, I see.

Thank you, so very much for pointing out the error of my ways based on your vast experience.

 

[jwtg]

Another, I see.

Thank you, so very much for pointing out the error of my ways based on your vast experience.

I wasn't aware that extensive CF experience was required to judge the merit of a person's words, their openness to correction, or their attitude.  If this were a matter of CF or military expertise, I would happily defer to your own experience; however, the debate seems to revolve more around the OP's attitude.  In that respect, you and I have the same sample to draw from- his words on this forum.

EDIT: To remove my own patronizing remark regarding RG's attitude, in the interest of practicing what I preach and not fuelling the fire.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I wasn't aware that extensive CF experience was required to judge the merit of a person's words, their openness to correction, or their attitude.  If this were a matter of CF or military expertise, I would happily defer to your own experience; however, the debate seems to revolve more around the OP's attitude.  In that respect, you and I have the same sample to draw from- his words on this forum.

If you would address my words instead of just spitting venom from your high horse then this discussion might go somewhere.

It's all part of one's perception and how it shapes their opinion.

Spitting venom from my high horse? That's pretty rich, but like I said, that's your opinion, not mine. We just don't agree on certain parameters is all.

 

[toyotatundra]

From the beginning of this thread to now, we have seen a significiant shift in attitude from the OP (toyotatundra), so I think it's unfair that some folks are chiming at this point to dump all over him for the things he said in the beginning.  He's recognized his mistake and is trying to move.  Perhaps we should let him?

Thank you.

 

[aesop081]

I am only going by what the recruiters said in response to my specific questions.

With a year in the CF and your initial expectation that your unit should roll over for you, all you have is "my recruiter told me" ?

I drown in paperwork every single day. I have to write reports on someone or something at least once a day. I not only have to handle my own administration but that of my subordinates. There is allot of writing and typing i assure you.

I also have to use my head. Training programs don't get developed by themselves. I had to participate in redesigning national level training for my trade and restructuring employment in new areas. I have had my head filled full of such intellectual things as the use of spaced-based assets and electronic warfare. I then get to use my NCM brain to advise the chain of command ( you know....officers) on the use of these assets to support the mission, sometimes at much higher levels than myself. I can assure you that my work as an NCM requires a large amount of "intellectual" work.

 

[Nauticus]

However, there's the problem. He came in ignorant of the facts and full of himself. He got corrected, and seemed to turn a corner. Then he falls back to ground zero with idiotic comments about Officer\ NCM status again.

Perhaps the best lesson he could learn is just to STFU until such time as he's gained enough experience AND knowledge to form an intelligent opinion.

I'm not sure that was necessary. Yes, people who aren't in the CF tend to not be acutely aware of every detail regarding trades and ranks, but then, most jobs are the same way. It's less "idiotic" and more "naive". You and I, I'm sure, were naive toward some of the details regarding the CF when we joined and I doubt we considered it "idiotic".

 

[toyotatundra]

I'm not sure that was necessary. Yes, people who aren't in the CF tend to not be acutely aware of every detail regarding trades and ranks, but then, most jobs are the same way. It's less "idiotic" and more "naive". You and I, I'm sure, were naive toward some of the details regarding the CF when we joined and I doubt we considered it "idiotic".

I think my brief comment on NCMs being practical may be getting stretched into something I didn't intend. Namely that NCMs are somehow stupid or can't think or never do paper work.

I don't believe any of those things about NCMs.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

People are touchy here.

Toyotatundra, I like how you are not turning into a snot from the comments like so many others would. Good on ya.

I'm not sure that was necessary. Yes, people who aren't in the CF tend to not be acutely aware of every detail regarding trades and ranks, but then, most jobs are the same way. It's less "idiotic" and more "naive". You and I, I'm sure, were naive toward some of the details regarding the CF when we joined and I doubt we considered it "idiotic".

I'm not sure whether you read my previous response, but here it is again.

It's a matter of perspective. Mine isn't the same as someone else's. I'm also free to think the way I want. You want to offer up a suggestion and a reason? Go ahead, but don't lecture me on what YOU consider being necessary, or not. I'll decide on my own, thank you very much.

I think my brief comment on NCMs being practical may be getting stretched into something I didn't intend. Namely that NCMs are somehow stupid or can't think or never do paper work.

Its no more fair than the opposite. You called NCMs practical? So you think officers are impractical? You said officers do written work? So you think officers can't fire a gun? You called us intellectual? So you think we lack common sense?

Kind of like when you tell your girlfriend she looks good today. And she replies, so I looked bad yesterday?

No, no, you just look sexy in that dress. So I look fat in my other dresses?

And so on. 

I think you should just let it drop. There is no win, win with this one. We don't win, you don't win. Especially with that kind of off tangent thinking, making inferences that only you see and no one else said.
Take the advice given, go ponder it and watch (and learn) how the military works when you're at work. Maybe you'll change your mind about some things.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Not sure what happened to my post, so here it is again:

I realize how easy it is to misconstrue ones posts on a forum, but sometimes it requires a  :facepalm:

It was removed because it added nothing to the conversation as per the guidelines.

You want to congratulate him, give him some Milpoints. You want to cause shit, go somewhere else.

 

[toyotatundra]

I drown in paperwork every single day. I have to write reports on someone or something at least once a day. I not only have to handle my own administration but that of my subordinates. There is allot of writing and typing i assure you.

I also have to use my head. Training programs don't get developed by themselves. I had to participate in redesigning national level training for my trade and restructuring employment in new areas. I have had my head filled full of such intellectual things as the use of spaced-based assets and electronic warfare. I then get to use my NCM brain to advise the chain of command ( you know....officers) on the use of these assets to support the mission, sometimes at much higher levels than myself. I can assure you that my work as an NCM requires a large amount of "intellectual" work.

I believe my attitude towards NCMs has improved somewhat over the course of this thread.

However, as you point out, there is a great deal about the roles of NCMs that I still need to learn.