Youth violence, and solving the problem

[Steel Badger]

HeyGents...

My posts were confined to discipline within a correctional setting.......as for "da yute" of today...

I think it is a combination of many things.......including:

A trend of far too many parent's using the V and/or x box to raise te kids,

Popular media stresses the self over society. I realise that a key element in attracting kids to movies etc is showing a reversal of power (ie the kids are in control) but that has been coupled to the whole "self first" idea....A lot of my friends are teachers and they comment frequently on the negative impact the media has on kids...lots of kids are not mature enough to realize that the "be yourself " message (which is a very good message) hasbeen firmly linked to the "rebel, break the rules" message which the media holds as cool behaviour...

Note:I AM NOT trying to flame the younger members of the forum (or of our society for that matter.) As a leader and trainer I recognize that all wisdom and intuition is not held with in the craniums of old, aluminium pot water drinking cahps like myself....
I am simply pointing out what I see.....

    I do think the media has a lot to answer for. Most of the Young Offenders and "Graduates" (YO's ho have moved on to the adult system) belong to a very specifc brand of street culture...the Gansta Hiphop image....

The music itself  constantly underlines THUG is GOOD, COPS R BAD, as well a complete lack of respect for women, family and society in general..
YES, I know an argument can be made for all music: Well Badger...what about the devil-worshipping Heavy Metal you listened to in the 80's?  Lokk man, I'm off that now...Haven't summoned Beelzebub since 92....and have you SEEN the price of newts eyes these days?
Worry more about those dudes listening to Zamphir and  his ^%^# panpipes..or Britney Spears......

Seriously tho. the Gansta culture dictates a lack of respect for society, women, law and order. It is all about complete self-gratification and demands voiolence to retain ones 'face".
For the Samurai, Bushido also demanded force (if required) to retain ones honour and face...but no "street soldier" today would put up with (or be even able to contemplate following" the strictures of Bushido that required the Samurai to be a civilized man as well, master of the tea ceremony, poetry and painting......

Its like the media / thug culture has focused entirely on the "flash", LCF value of a culture set and ignored completely any deeper meaning........TO the street thug, its all about show...the clothes you wear, the "bling bling",  building up self by adding to the outer shell but not truely building self respect from within,,,,

Our inmates all talk about love, peace and respect...its their favorite mantra's....in their letters and in their daily life.....
They, however, are very rarely capable of showing peace, love or respect to anyone.....
The imperatives chosen cultural mores force them to act without thought to preserve their image as "tough guys" because that is THE ONLY STATUS THEY HAVE...

The media as played the "fight the man" image to the hilt, so why should kids think to become part of society when it is cooler to become part of the "thug life"....The clothes the music, all the commercial trappings are geared towards that image..

Look at thewhole baggy pants-under-the ass-thing......We call em Booty Pants or Open for Business pants...Its a fad that started in the New York State prison system. Imates there were issued one size fits all pants, and it became a mark of the ex-con todress that way on the street...It gave street cred or credit to the wearer.. much like the respect given to our brethern who wear UN and other foriegn service medals......

Because the kids truly  did not feel apart of their society, they measured their own self worth by how tough a thug they had become......(This was true for kids in LA and NewYork and the depressed areas of a lot of major US Cities)
But the media exported the lifestyle hear.....

But art imitates life, and police officers can tell anyone about kids being rolled or having the slippers put to them simply for wearing clothes that send the wrong street message....I know of many incidents where kids got a beating just because their ball caps were titled to the wrong side....other little-wannabe thugs were following teh "west-coast" dress fad and felt they had to be true to the thug life and take em out....

AAnd non ofthe kids involved on either side would have a snowball's hope in hell of surviving in east LA.......
Its that simply... The structures of this new culture don't allow for thought......
The one being "dissed: has to react violently to redress the supposed slight to his honour( a word that street thugs throw around but very very few have any concept of)

I feel for kids today, having to live their lives a schools where; unlike when i was at school, arguments dont lead to fist fights one on one....but swarmings, knifings or shootings.......
The "thugs" use weapons so easily because they wouldnt dare fight someone  one on one.......they dont have the minearls....they can only act in groups and then they act with overwhelming volence...


Its funny, there is more violence at dance clubs every night, then in all of the old punk bars and shows that i ever went to. Sure the punks got "active" in the mosh pit...but i NEVER saw a stabbing or a swarming or anything like that...

Part of the problem, as others have pointed out; is the whole youth justice system. Its a crock and so is the Act. As a line officer, i regularly work alongside YO staff and I respond to alerts in the YO segment of our institution...
Most people would not believe how these kids are treated...
The idea underlying the YO act is good...give kids a chance, but in practice it is horribly flawed in the application..
The YO System treats ALL young offenders as little kids. It grades their performance according to their behaviour much like Club Ed does.....but there the similiarities stop....
Staff have so many limitations on their dealings with YO's it cripples their ability to do their jobs...andthe kids know it...
I have responded to alerts where kids have taken other kids hostage, set fire to their cells, been involved in swarmings etc.... and in all cases the Kids (some of whom are 19 doing YO time) who perpetrated the incidents STILL got their pizza and subs and skittles and pop.....cause it takes an act of God to remove the treats that the kids get (so they can develop like real kids)

The system suffers from a disconnect...the policy makers do not realize or care that the incarcerated youth are just as violent and the adults, perhaps moreso becausethe kids KNOW the legal system cant touch them......

Last friday, I was on nights, and there was a disturbance in the YO unit. 3 line officers were injured responding to the alert....including my partner....btu the little *%^$& who started the incident......He still got his visit  and he still got his fridaynight pizza for good behaviour....


To change the yout of today we as a society first have to change our own outlook on this.....ditch the 60's influenced crap that masquerades as our legal system today, and ensure our parents takeactive roles in raising their kids. Then we must change the medias message,,,,,,,

 

[bossi]

Last week, a young SOB threw a snowball at my car. The snowball hit the window where my daughter would have been sitting. I immediately stopped the car and pursued the little SOB. I humiliated him in front of his 20+ friends. Within a span of 2 minutes he went from being cool for throwing snowballs at traffic, to a snotting and bawling kid. I held him accountable, and made him a symbol to 20 of his friends. He will think twice before doing it again- and so will his friends.

A funny thing happened on the way to work the other day ...

Waiting in the drive-through to pick up some Timbits for my son, we noticed the driver of the car in front of us throw an empty water bottle out his window at the order point.  My son noticed, and I explained that it was a bad thing ... which got me thinking (... always a bad thing ...).  I hopped out and picked up the bottle, walked forward to the driver's window, handed it back to him, and explained VERY politely that my five-year-old son saw him throw his garbage out the window and would he please mind disposing of the bottle properly in order to set a better example.

Sadly, this story doesn't have a happy ending - the driver launched into a tirade of foul, abusive language - asking me if I was a cop (I happend to be wearing a suit and tie), then telling me he hates cops - I bit my tongue and simply replied that "no, I was a gentleman ... unlike him" (an older gentleman was in the passenger seat - he took the bottle from my hand) and I asked if the passenger could perhaps teach some manners to the driver.  Well, he lost it ... and went beserk.  Sadly, I could only react impassively, since it would have defeated the purpose of this exercise if my son were to see me perform any of the IA's that I oh, so dearly wanted to do ... sigh ... (plus, I don't fight for sport, and throwing garbage on the ground didn't warrant a trip to the emergency ward for this miscreant ... although his language did ...).

But, I was still able to chuckle - I didn't let the jerk get to me, and I resisted the temptation to phone in his license plate number and say that I was worried because the driver reeked of alcohol (he didn't, and two wrongs don't make a right ...).  I've still got his license plate number written down, however ...

Sum up?  It all comes under the heading of "never pass a fault" - if a child gets away with a small misdeed, they can become emboldened unless they're taught the error of their ways.  The next step can be petty crimes as a teenager, leading to more serious offences as a young adult ... (this past weekend in Toronto, there were two executions - double taps to the head - both victims in their early 20's ...).  Sure, one might write this off as "two less scumbags on the street", but ... the flip side is that there are killers out there who now think they can get away with it (as per another story about a bottom-feeder nicknamed "Bullet" who is the prime suspect in the shooting of a young nursing student ... ).  Thus, rather than run the risk of coming up against some insecure gangsta with a Saturday Night Special tucked into the drooping waistband of his ridiculously baggy pants (... when your Kevlar is somewhere else, and your own "lead projectile flashlight" is lawfully secured where you can't get to it when you need it the most ...) it's quite a bit more cost effective to nip it in the bud when they're children.

Be careful out there.

 (Hill Street Blues)

P.S.  Posting simultaneously with Steel Badge - beautiful comment re: Bushido - I agree fully.

Those who appreciate true valour should in their daily intercourse set gentleness first and aim to win the love and esteem of others.  If you affect valour and act with violence, the world will in the end detest you and look upon you as wild beasts.  Of this you should take heed.
Emperor Meiji:  Rescript to Soldiers and Sailors, 4 January 1883

 

[PARAMEDIC]

Sorry Che made you walk into that one. ;D

Being brought up old school we had all the good stuff you talk about and plently of it plus the belt when you really messed up. It is a combination of a lot of things, some like to blame the media others the company their kids keep, but It all start out at home.
Fear is a good motivater but fear can only go so far, our parents understood that concept and used all the good stuff you state.

The point I was trying to make, Bossi gets it or explained it more eloquently than me was that correction or the enforcing of whats right and wrong at an early age corrects a lot of bs we see happening today.

To state that there is one reason (being parents) would be inaccurate and unfair, but with the same token parents play a big part in early development of a child not the media or the company  of friends the child keeps.

All in all and in my honest opinion society has been going to the sh1tter for a while now and it iisnt gonna get better any sooner.

So the best we can do is make sure our kids are brought up correctly and they do the same to their kids. 

 

[winchable]

I was listening to my Clash album here at work, and thinking about the idea that "new" music is somehow to blame and realised that that's crock.
Music has been fighitng the man for a long time now, paramedic put it well as did Bossi when they said it starts out at home.
Can't leave the telly on to babysit the kids all and expect they turn out shippy.

 

[Slim]

There are some really good points brought up in this thread...

As a BG for one of the richest people in Canada my team is VERY concerned with youth violence in the way that it effects us doing our job.

Generally we try not to have a situation occur in which the principle (s) would need to be protected from underage thugs (the best defense is not to be there) but should something happen and one of us have to intervene, my question would be "what do we do?"

Can we intervine the same way? Can we use the same level of violence (force) on an underage kid? A 12 year old with a gun is still very dangerous and can kill you just as fast as a grown up can...

the police and  other law enforcement agencies always suffer hugely when dealing with the result of answering youth deadly violence in kind ( remember when Toronto Police shot that Puerto-Rican kid who threatened them with a knife...the local community that the kid came from went nuts!"Poor little Johny would NEVER do anything like that-never mind his rap sheet of course). Can you imagine a private CP team and what would happen to us?!

Thoughts are welcome

Cheers

Slim

 

[bossi]

Ya know, there's no such thing as a "good place" to assault your spouse, but ... some places are downright stupid.
Details are sketchy, but this afternoon it appears that some civvie decided to assault his wife ... at our main gate.
And so, some people wearing green camouflage uniforms invited this person to cool his heels with them while they awaited the arrival of the people in the cars that have red bubble gum lights on the roof ...
(reminds me of the time some thug assaulted an old man across the street from Moss Park Armoury ... where an infantry section was taking a fresh air break, but then did their civic duty without hesitation ...)

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Quote from Che,
I was listening to my Clash album here at work, and thinking about the idea that "new" music is somehow to blame and realised that that's crock.
Music has been fighitng the man for a long time now

I do agree with you here but I think there is one major difference, we listened  and saw only the homogenized versions of them on shows like " Saturday Night Special". Now they watch their "idols" kill/slap/revenge...the whole shabang...24 hours a day, seven days a week,, which ties into your next line,

Can't leave the telly on to babysit the kids all and expect they turn out shippy.

...and this is what we have, a whole generation raised by TV/video or strangers in day care...we need to be Mom and Dad again, not paycheques.

 

[winchable]

It was actually a bad comparison on my part, I felt dirty after comparing the Clash to new music.

 

[Spr.Earl]

Lock the F'rs up and just teach them a lesson!

Before we came too Canada my Bro. and I messed up.
My Dad drove us down too the Local Borstal and showed us were we end up that was enough to scare us!
There are others on this site who know my Bro.

I'm 52 now,I'm not impressed with our Laws !!!!!!

Bring back the Lash   ;D

Lock up the little Bastreds!!!!

 

[bubba]

i can't beleave it spr earl i agree with ya(haha).the young offenders act has got to be fixed,kids can do what they want till there 18.that kid's punishment in halifax is a joke,whats the mesage there to kids.stealing and murder is ok just be good after you turn 18,f33king punk.anyway i don't want to go on a rant.not to highjack thread but what do you guy's think about bringing back the death penalty .

 

[Gunnar]

Comes from never expecting, enforcing, or giving youths responsibility.   Parents won't do it.   Gov't won't let you do it.   "They're only kids, you need to be easy on them".   So these kids don't learn about the hard lessons of life, and they never "grow" up.   Then you have 18 year olds with an 8 year old mentality:   that they can get away with anything, even murder, because it doesn't matter and nobody will call them on it.

If the Liberals were serious about solving the problems of youth violence, they'd stop being Liberals.   That's really one of the best ways.   There needs to be a philosophical shift towards responsibility, accountibility and exposure to the hard truths of this thing called life.   People who aren't exposed to hard truths have to rely on those of us who remain to bail out their sorry asses when things go sour.

Think of life as a square.   The early Liberals realized that life was square, but thought that the edges were too pointy and sharp.   "Let us round the edges a bit", said they, "so that life is not so sharp and painful".   So the edges were rounded slightly, and life was still mostly square.   Then a new generation grew up under this square and thought "Let us round the edges a bit so that life is not so sharp and painful".   So the edges were rounded slightly, and life was still somewhat square.   And the few had to deal more intently with the essential squareness of life because they were keeping the corners rounded for the others.   Then a new generation grew up under this square and thought "Let us round the edges a bit so that life is not so sharp and painful".   And the few became fewer, and had to deal more intently with the essential squareness of life because they were keeping the corners round for the others.   Repeat for several generations.   Then a new generation of Liberals grew up under this irregular roundish form and thought "Let us make strange inroads into this geometric figure, so that there are never any corners, edges or predefined areas where one might see a point".   Then a generation was born that not only couldn't see the point, but couldn't imagine one...and they kept demanding that life be a three-dimensional semi-formed blob.   Then the few were crucified, or the new generation stole from others who lived in ideas of differently shaped three-dimensional semi-formed blobs.  Wars started and many people were killed as they each learned in very uncomfortable ways that not only did their competing ideas of life conflict, but that LIFE WAS SQUARE.   And many people died until the lesson was learned.

Then, a generation was born who realized that life was square, but thought that the edges were too pointy and sharp....

The same pattern repeats.   Occasionally, people rebel...sometimes, a group of squares gets ticked, and tells people that "life is a triangle" because, sick of having the edges trimmed at their expense, they force their world view on the "rounded edge" types.   The rounded edge types are unable to conceive of points, so they don't know how to deal with all the sharp edges, and the world becomes a triangle...and the formless, edgeless types get cut up.   That's dictatorship.   This too is a failure to recognize reality, because life isn't a triangle, and it isn't a blob.   It's a damn square.

Probably far too theoretical for most, but some of you will get it.

 

[winchable]

that kid's punishment in halifax is a joke

Just to clarify on that kids punishment, the 82 sentence was for stealing the car.
He has yet to be sentenced for the death of the woman.
Though he will very likely get a lenient sentence.

 

[Bograt]

Thanks Che fro clarifying that piece of information. My "outrage" has been quelled a little.

My wife is a teacher at a local school. She relates to me almost everyday of children who are over prescribed and underparented. Schools  no longer "fail students," instead children are placed on various "pathways" to correspond to their "learning capability." This was done because policy wogs viewed that failing kids hurt their self esteem. As a result classroom are filled with kids who are struggling. (A recent 6 grade social studies test asked "name four Atlantic provinces"- Some of the answers were- France, Halifax, Mining,). The test have to be brough home and signed by the parents. What would you do if your kid brought home a test and he scored 10%? Unfortunately, some "parents" are merely egg and sperm donors.

Anyways, back to my rant. There are several pathways programs for kids, but no enrichment program. Parents are choosing french immersion programs because they want to segregate their kids from the problems of the general stream.

I don't know what the answer is. Parents need to be held accountable. Kids need to be held accountable. There seems to a degradation of society as we try to appease the lowest common denominator. (I know that saying this isn't politically correct) The social safety net (and the values that make up its twine) have snared us all- it is the great social ghost net killing all. (Hows that for a Newfie analogy? )

 

[Garbageman]

My wife is a teacher at a local school. She relates to me almost everyday of children who are over prescribed and underparented. Schools   no longer "fail students," instead children are placed on various "pathways" to correspond to their "learning capability." This was done because policy wogs viewed that failing kids hurt their self esteem. As a result classroom are filled with kids who are struggling. (A recent 6 grade social studies test asked "name four Atlantic provinces"- Some of the answers were- France, Halifax, Mining,). The test have to be brough home and signed by the parents. What would you do if your kid brought home a test and he scored 10%? Unfortunately, some "parents" are merely egg and sperm donors.

Anyways, back to my rant. There are several pathways programs for kids, but no enrichment program. Parents are choosing french immersion programs because they want to segregate their kids from the problems of the general stream.

As I've said previously in another thread, we very much can and do fail kids at the high school level.  Unfortunately, their patterns of behaviour and attitude are generally well established by the time they get to us, so most of them don't seem to be overly concerned about failing a grade 9 class for the third or fourth time.

We do offer an enrichment program in Ontario.  Kids have to go through a placement evaluation to get in, but only a minor hoop to jump through.  Unfortunately, it generally ends at high school.

Biggest thing that I've been stunned by in my tenure as a rookie teacher is the amount of empathy that I get from parents.  When a kid's got 6% in one of the easier courses (at an 'open' level - another can of worms), the parent should be very concerned.  But the most common response is "well, I know, Johnny's marks are always this bad, but oh well, he'll just have to take the class again".  I've heard it a lot from teachers who've been working for 20-30 years that there has been a major shift away from having parents there to back you up.  Now they're hard to even track down, and all too often interested in being their son or daughter's 'friend' instead of their parent.

 

[The_Falcon]

Although I completely agree 100% with most of what has been said here, especially the points raised the parents have to take responsibilty for thier kids and raise them properly, I disagree with you Che over the point you raised regarding music.    True music for a long time has spoken about opposition to authority and the need for individuality,   in most (if not all cases) it never promoted violence against authority and the need to refer to street justice. Youths are very impressionable people, and we can not as much as we would like to force parents to be parents.   Which leaves them looking for alternatives.   And in many cases they look to the hip-hop "culture" or "lifestyle" were they see retards like Eminem, 50 cent, Jaz Z, DMX getting fame and fortune by relating their exploits as a "thug"/"gangsta"/"PIMP".   Here is a sample of 50 cents lyrics from the Track "Heat" on his aptly named "Get rich or die trying" "[gun shots]

bridge
If there's beef, c#ck it and dump it
The drama really means nothin'
To me I ride by 'n blow ya brains out(brains out)
There's no time to c#ck it
No way you could stop it
When niggaz run up on you with them thangs out(thangs out)
I do what I gotta do I don't care if I get caught
The D.A can play this mutherfuckin tape in court
I'll kill you...

corus
I ain't playing'
Hear what im sayin'
Homie i aint playin'
Catch you slippin' imma kill you
I ain't playin'
Hear what im sayin'
Homie i ain't playin'

Verse 1
Keep thinkin' im candy
'Til your fuckin' skull get popped
And your brain pop out the top, like Jack-in-the-box(yeh!)
In the hood, summer time is the killin' season
Is hot out this b7tch, that's a good enough reason(whoo!)
I see gangstas get religious when they start bleedin'
Sayin' "Lord Jesus help me!"
Cuz they @$$ leavin'
When that window roll down and that AK come out
You could squeeze your little hand-gun 'til u run out
And you could run for your back-up
The machine-gun shells gon' tear your back up
God's on your side, crap im aight with that
Cuz we gon' reload them clips and come on right back
It's a fact homie
You go against me you fucked!
I hit the drop if you could duck yourluckier then lady luck
Look nigga
Don't make me say cuz you moved out the hood
Cuz your moma still around dawg and that ain't good
If you get smart you be shookin' me
Cuz I get tired of lookin' for you, spray your moma crib and let your @$$ look
for me"

Kids (doesn't matter if they are poor/rich/black/white) hear that kind of stuff and they start to think and act the same way.   If they act violent and tough they will get respect.   All these clowns should be sent to the far northern artic so they can not infect the brains of our kids.   Now before people jump on me "What about Manson, and Ozzy etc.." Manson has never promoted violence against people to get respect.   He may use violent sounding lyrics, and he does hate authority, he tells his listeners not to blindly follow everything and everyone (including him), but to thinks about new ideas and concepts, and to question the establishment/authority through intelligent debate.   50 cent et al tell people point blank I am just tellin it like it you have to use violence to get respect.  

 

[Steel Badger]

I got your six Hatchet!

    Some years ago, people where worried about the lyrics of Punk groups like the Blitz, Bulldog Breed etc etc.
the truth is tho, that very few people (kids etc) followed the lifestyle depicted in their songs and movies like Romper Stomper. (Russell Crowes first movie and an eeire look into Australian Skinheads). Very very few were hard core...

the numbers now that idolize the" gangsta" scene and imitate it are legion....just look around.....

The proliferation of knives and guns being used to "save face" goes hand in hand with  a culture that thinks Baby Momma's are the best way to raise kids.

And before the hounds cry RACIST! I will say that my colleagues (of all colours and backgrounds....even the Campbells >) agree that there IS a huge negative influence.

Even the rap / hip-hop industry has become concerned about the negative societal impact. When Grand Master Flash started out, he was talking about righting injustice...
Now 50 cent and his "dawgs" rap about killing people, criminal life etc etc and #$%^&&^ HO's...

The problem is that the message is everywhere....it IS the mainstream.....

Skinhead punk was NEVER mainstream....it was hard(er) to find and was not the tune of choice at most of the nation's danceclubs....
I never saw small children singing and bopping along to the BullDog Breed: "Smack him if he's yellow, Smack him if he's black, Smack him till he fucks off and never comes back..."

But I do see kids singing along to 50 cent and his ilk....and the WORST part is....Parents think its CUTE!!!!!

I aske a good friend of mine about it once and she explained that she never thought of th elyrics, it wa s a catchy trendy tune and all the kids wanted to get the album.... So it didnt bother her that her 4 year old was singing along to 50 or EMINEM......
Whe i asked her if shed let him sing along to punk music she said "no...theose songs are all racist!"

And she is not alone, take a good look the next time you are at the mall etc...

The point i am trying to make is that people ( parents) are ignoring the message in the music BECAUSE it popular...
The media glamourizes THUG LIFE, makes gang-bangers heros.......
Kids want to be like their heros..........
they want to look and sound like them....
(look at the wee girls dressing like britney!)
so kids want it.....and their parents buy it
Kids will imitate it if it seems cool....and the media MAKES it cool....
(look at the problems caused in schools over the latest shoes etc...kids get rolled for it)

Again I will mention cases where kids have been rolled or beaten for wearing clothes that imitate their idols...
In most cases they kids may not have known that dressing a certain way actually meant something or were unaware that there were those who took east Coast / West Coast indicators seriously.....

 

[a_majoor]

We can at least be glad that many (if not most) human beings are decent at heart, and even in the dark recesses of places like the "Jane-Finch corridor" or Banja Luka, people will be exposed to negative influences like Rap music or hate propaganda yet never decend to the level of barbarism suggested.

We do still need to hold people accountable for their actions, especially parents, and we need to do something about schools. Here in Ontario, there are more and more parents who are going to whatever alternative they can find and afford, French Immersion, Catholic, Parochial/Religious (including Jewish, Islamic and Hindu schools), Montessouri or as a last resort, home schooling. This will be a generation of kids who were instilled with values in childhood, and I can see them scrambling up the ladder and being the leaders, movers and shakers of tomorrow, bypassing their public school "educated" peers

This dosn't solve our problem in the here and now though....

 

[JasonH]

The problem of increasing youth violence is a hot topic in the media these days.
When I wrote my letter to the editor (published in today's Toronto Sun) I certainly wasn't advocating compulsory military service - it's been discussed before, and the consensus continues to be "our Army doesn't need to be further burdened with the dregs of our society".  However, due to the editorial comment/reply, it's worth mentioning here (in order to ensure we've got our act together, and all singing the same song ...)

Having said all of the above, I continue to be frustrated by inappropriate role models for today's youth, when there are so many better choices they could be making ... and better examples they could be following ...

Sun, December 19, 2004
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's painful to learn about another senseless murder -- another child stolen from family and friends ("'A good kid' killed," Dec. 5). This cycle of violence is not going to stop unless some brave steps are taken.

Why do so many cowards try to prove their manhood with violence? Do they need a knife or a gun in order to compensate for their lack of backbone? Is it because they're so weak, physically and intellectually, that they need to be a bully in order to feel big? Why are they just "hanging out" instead of learning the right lessons about teamwork and fair play?

What role models are they following? Instead of idolizing thugs, gang-bangers, pimps and other spineless scum, there needs to be a concerted campaign to teach what is true courage, and real heroes. The Sun is doing the right thing by telling the story of Canada's Victoria Cross winners. They went overseas to defend Canada, but now there is a menace right here, right now.

This is only the beginning of a battle that must continue to be fought not only in the newspapers, but on television, in movies, in school, on the streets, and at home. It's not "somebody else's job" to teach our children what's right and wrong, it's the duty of every citizen, parent and leader. If we fail, we lose everything.

I didn't go to Afghanistan to see my own country go down the toilet. Let's roll.

Mark Bossi
Scarborough

Editor's response:  "(Hmm, you think maybe military service for some of these kids could be the answer?)"

Awesome write up bossi  :warstory:

 

[winchable]

Good point regarding the music Hatchet man, I suppose the newer opposition to authority is in the main stream.
The only reason I brought it up was because of the song "guns of brixton"

When they kick at your front door
How are you gonna come?
With your hands on your head
Or on the trigger of your gun

When the law break in
How are you gonna go?
Shot down on the pavement
Or waiting on death row

You can crush us
You can bruise us
But you'll have to answer to
Oh, the guns of Brixton


I still think blaming music for messed up kids is a copout. >

 

[The_Falcon]

If you blame only the music than yes it is a copout.  But the kind of influence that particular brand of "music" or "lifestyle" has on kids is based on how involved the parents are in thier kids lives. The more involved the parent (I don't mean the kind of involvement were the parents want to be friends, but actually set limits/discipline etc.) the less likely this garbage will infect young minds.  And it doesn't particularly matter were in society you fit in, absentee parents are at all levels, from the dirt poor to the super rich. 

I know there are no hard and fast numbers but people in involved in law enforcement will tell you (and are saying so here) that you can not discount the effect this stuff is having on kids.