York U: Flower Power, Pray for Peace!

[Old Ranger]

"Army out of York,"

Don't you see, it was a History Class.
We understand their confusion from the level of Education they receive at" Last Chance U."

 

[Erborn]

One of the best Bumper Stickers I have ever read

IF YOU CAN READ THIS  THANK A VET

 

[paracowboy]

Hmm after reading most of the post's what came to my mind were the words of Edward R. Murrow back in the Joe McCarthy era.
"Don't' mistake dissent with disloyalty"

keep in mind that the Russians have gone on record as saying McCarthy was right, all along.

 

[Gunner]

One of the best Bumper Stickers I have ever read

IF YOU CAN READ THIS   THANK A VET

I think the correct version of the bumper sticker is:

IF YOU CAN READ THIS, THANK A TEACHER

IF ITS IN ENGLISH, THANK A VET

 

[Air4ce]

Thank God for our military and for the sacrifices they make each day.
"It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press."

"It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech."

"It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us freedom to demonstrate."

"It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag.

by
Kevin M Offord
Captain

I say if the students at York want to protest Canada's military presence in Afghanistan I say more power to them.  It means that my grandfathers, father and, to a very small part, I have done our jobs.

 

[Old Ranger]

Carleton is 'last chance u', not York.  

Moo U all the way.

Should I call it "Limp wristed U"?

 

[Sig_Des]

I say if the students at York want to protest Canada's military presence in Afghanistan I say more power to them.

If York U students want to protest Canada's military presence in Afghanistan, let them go to the bloody country and do it there, or do it in a more appropriate forum.

Protesting the presence of an equal-opportunity employer that offers large personal benefits and (hmm) educational reimbursements, and preventing those interested in said employment is small-minded. IMHO

 

[The Bread Guy]

Recent evidence that York and Cartoon U are not alone....

http://umanitoba.ca/manitoban/2005-2006/1005/810.campuses.and.canadas.gentle.military.php

Highlights:

"There is no shortage of evidence contradicting Canada's lawful use of force and nearly pristine image of the blue berets; Canada's military history is no more than the history of one state's appeasement of the dominant Empire, whether British or American.'

"Canada needs to keep some of its troops at home to suppress Indigenous resistance and protect golf courses, as it did with the 1990 dispute between the Mohawk people of the Kanesatake reserve and the town of Oka, Quebec."

"If military recruitment campaigns are normalized and accepted on campuses across Canada, the Canadian Forces are indeed in line with the values of society: not peace, rights or dignity â ” not freedom to self-determine or freedom from death â ” but the uncritical militarization of state-serving citizens, beginning with youth. "

Go at 'er, folks ...  ;D

 

[Air4ce]

Small minded?  Maybe.  More like ignorant, but how can they be anything else but ignorant.  What hardships have they faced in their young lives?  What's the most dangerous thing they have to do, cross the street in Toronto?  There is nobody waiting around the corner to blow them up.  They don't have to worry about walking in the grass for fear of stepping on a landmine.  The only snipers they see are in their video games.  There is no hunger, all they have to do is open a fridge door.  If they decide they do not want to go to school on any given day all they have to do is turn off they alarm and pull the covers up on their nice comfie, warm beds.  I bet they only time they leave the country is to go to well catered tourist locations.  Ignorance is truly bliss.  My only wish is that my kids grow up with the same level of ignorance.  Unfortunately it is an ignorance that has been paid for with the blood of our forefathers.  It is therefore my responsibility to educate my kids on the sacrifices made by their grandparents and great grandparents generations.  If they still choose to protest Canada's role in the world they have my full support.  As long they do so in a manner that honours the memories of the men in women in uniform past, present and future.  In the mean time I'll walk past protests like the one at York University chuckle, shake my head and wish the "children" well in their future in this big bad world.

 

[George Wallace]

To the Manitoban:

Your article by Kendra Ballingall, titled "Campuses and Canada's gentle military is an interesting piece.  It really illustrates the pitfalls and failings of the current Education Systems in Canada.  It saddens me that we have to graduate people out of our Public and High Schools without them achieving the proper education that they need in today's world.  This article has so many half truths and falsehoods mixed in with the right amount of fact to confuse many into thinking that Canada is truly a wonderful place, free from an form of harm.

Socialism, Communism and various other great political concepts are interesting theories to study.  Unfortunately, they fail to take into account the Human Factor.  It is for these reasons that they fail, when put into practise.  Someone always wants to be the boss.
 
Kendra is no different in her arguments.  She has taken up a few skewed ideas based on false impressions and half truths and feels it upon herself to convert the world to her views. 

Some segments of her piece are very confusing to me.  Her statement that US "Recruiters ride hummers into classrooms, blast 50 Cent at lunch hour..." confirms to me that she really doesn't have the knowledge or research to back what she says.  Can anyone explain what it means to blast 50 Cents at lunch hour means?  She even refers to the Canadian Forces "as the largest employer in Canada", when we all know that the Toronto Metro Police Force is much larger.  I am sure that she is also a Business Major and can rationally dismiss the Defence Budget.  Perhaps she would like to go to Afghanistan and see how Canada's Troops are conducting their "stabilization and reconstruction" endeavours.  The Department of National Defence does permit Journalists the opportunity to visit Canadian Troops on these missions.  Oh, by the way Ms Ballingall, those Troops are known as Soldiers, Sailors and Airmen; not Peacekeepers. 

I notice that this article takes offence to Canada partaking in UN operations, contradicting the use throughout of the term Peacekeeper.  The rewriting of history to twist the facts about a Golf Course in Quebec, further points out the flaws with our Education System.  If these misconceptions of our history are allowed to prevail, we will truly not have a Canadian Identity.  If that is the subliminal plot behind this article, we are all fools if we allow it to happen.

The inclusion of this paragraph, I felt was a fantastic recruiting ad in itself, one that would make more students, worried of their future job prospects and means of paying off their Student Loans and Debt give the Canadian Forces a serious look:

"As an employer, the Canadian Forces has a lot to offer: competitive wages, medical and dental care, pension, and parental leave are listed on their website, and members of the primary reserve can have up to $8,000 of their postsecondary tuition fees reimbursed."

In the end, after all these musings about political opinions in predominately anti-military Political Science classes, one must stop to wonder, eventually, how one is going to put food on their table, how to bring up their children, how to protect their way of life and their home (House, town, Province, Country, etc.)?  How will you pay your mortgage?  How will you pay the Taxman?

To Ms Ballingall, a bouquet of roses.  May she smell them in the morning with her coffee.

 

[Sig_Des]

BRAVO, Mr. Wallace, Bravo!

 

[George Wallace]

 My only wish is that my kids grow up with the same level of ignorance.  Unfortunately it is an ignorance that has been paid for with the blood of our forefathers.  It is therefore my responsibility to educate my kids on the sacrifices made by their grandparents and great grandparents generations.  If they still choose to protest Canada's role in the world they have my full support.  As long they do so in a manner that honours the memories of the men in women in uniform past, present and future.  In the mean time I'll walk past protests like the one at York University chuckle, shake my head and wish the "children" well in their future in this big bad world.

Interesting.   I applaud your dedication to teach your children the sacrifices of those who came before and died so that they may be free, but it sort of contradicts your statement of them growing up in the same level of ignorance.

If we allow our sacrifices, and those of many before us, who paid in blood, to be forgotten or ridiculed by the ignorant; we will be bound to make the same mistakes again and perhaps in the process loose all our hard won freedoms.   Ignorance IS NOT Bliss.   It means we have failed and lost; our freedoms soon to follow.

 

[Guardian]

Given the state of English instruction at most universities, I highly doubt that 99% of the students we're complaining about could articulate their point of view half as well as George just did.

(Never mind.... half of the aforementioned 99% don't even know why they believe what they do, and so it wouldn't matter how well they said it anyway...)

Bravo, George. That was beautiful.  

 

[Zarathustra]

They want "Canada out of Afghanistan" ?! They want the Talibans back ? Can someone point out one good thing about the Talibans ?? How about Canadian female students not allowed in "student space" for a week a year, in memory of the good old Taliban regime.

I'll write them a line too.

 

[Old Ranger]

We can always rely on George to bring the Big Guns down to bear.

Bravo!

 

[Air4ce]

Interesting.   I applaud your dedication to teach your children the sacrifices of those who came before and died so that they may be free, but it sort of contradicts your statement of them growing up in the same level of ignorance.

If we allow our sacrifices, and those of many before us, who paid in blood, to be forgotten or ridiculed by the ignorant; we will be bound to make the same mistakes again and perhaps in the process loose all our hard won freedoms.   Ignorance IS NOT Bliss.   It means we have failed and lost; our freedoms soon to follow.

You have to give me some artistic licence here George.  I want my kids to grow up not knowing first hand the hardships faced by the people of Afghanistan and other troubled areas of the world.  That is the "level of ignorance" I wish for them.

"Ignorance is bliss" was meant as sarcasm as it pertains to the protesters at York.  A more realistic statement would be "Ignorance Kills".  This is played out daily throughout the world.  Here's hoping the education the protesters get at York pays off in the long run.

 

[larry Strong]

To the Manitoban:



Some segments of her piece are very confusing to me.   Her statement that US "Recruiters ride hummers into classrooms, blast 50 Cent at lunch hour..." confirms to me that she really doesn't have the knowledge or research to back what she says.   Can anyone explain what it means to blast 50 Cents at lunch hour means?   She even refers to the Canadian Forces "as the largest employer in Canada", when we all know that the Toronto Metro Police Force is much larger.   I am sure that she is also a Business Major and can rationally dismiss the Defence Budget.   Perhaps she would like to go to Afghanistan and see how Canada's Troops are conducting their "stabilization and reconstruction" endeavours.   The Department of National Defence does permit Journalists the opportunity to visit Canadian Troops on these missions.    Oh, by the way Ms Ballingall, those Troops are known as Soldiers, Sailors and Airmen; not Peacekeepers.  

I think that means big speakers with the rap guy "Fitty cents" doing his thing

 

[Zarathustra]

I sent them this.

"Hello ! I'm writing to you regarding your article on military recruitment at Canadian universities. I'm a 29 years old Canadian. I have a philosophy degree, a computer sciences degree and a minor in social sciences. I'm currently leaving a high paying job to join the Canadian Forces.

I think that promoting the ban of military recruiters from campus is a bad idea. First, the Canadian forces obey the orders coming from the Canadian government. If feel you should protest against the Liberal Party if you disagree with the current operation in Afghanistan. It's as if you refused recruiters from the public service because you disagree with a law. It's targeting the wrong person. Second, the military is a very high responsability occupation. It's important that the members of the Canadian Forces be some of the best Canadians. Making recruitment harder is just likely to lead us to a military of leftovers, which is clearly not what Canadians wants. Third, the previous regime in Afghanistan wasn't very democratic and pleasant. As a journal that is "a forum for critical debate and an agent of social change that refuses to publish editorial and ad content deemed discriminatory, racist, sexist, homophobic or hateful", I'm having a hard time seeing why you defend the Talibans.

I feel that by deciding what's good for students and what is not, the ban of military recruiters is a bit totalitarian. Isn't the purpose of education to allow people to make their own choices ? I hope that the Manitoban will reconsider its position on this subject.



Sincerely yours,

François Boudreau"

 

[armyvern]

Well I sent one in too:

Dear Editor,

I feel the need to respond to a few points (they certainly do not qualify as facts)in the article by Kendra Ballingall, titled "Campuses and Canada's gentle military."

Firstly, I feel perhaps she should step out of the classroom and gain some experience, or better yet, step into a class on Military History. For there she would learn that the Canadian Forces are a very far cry from being "the largest employer in Canada."

As for Canada's "stabilization and reconstruction" endeavours in Afghanistan, where 2,500 Canadian troops, six ships and six aircraft have been deployed" close, but not actually factual. Perhaps also a geography class or two? Afghanistan is a landlocked country. The figures she quotes are based on total numbers since 2001 when the Government first deployed personnel to South West Asia region as part of the War Against Terrorism.

"The difference between U.S. and Canadian militarization of schools lies in the myth that Canada is a peacekeeping nation. Unlike the U.S. defence forces, the Canadian Forces depends on its self-image and international reputation as a global peacekeeper, a "gentle military." Wrong again, the Canadian Forces do not call themselves a bunch of "Peacekeepers," they call themselves soldiers, sailors, and airmen. Only the general population of Canada likes to use this term vice "soldier." Perhaps it allows them to maintain the illusion that there is nothing wrong with the world and that there are no 'bad' people in it.

Apparently "the Manitoban - as a forum for critical debate and an agent of social change that refuses to publish editorial and ad content deemed discriminatory, racist, sexist, homophobic or hateful" only advocates discriminatory (and somewhat hateful) practices when it comes to recruiting on campus?

I would argue that "if military recruitment campaigns are normalized and accepted on campuses across Canada, the Canadian Forces are indeed in line with the values of society" as your peace has already come with a price, and your rights, dignity and your freedom to self-determination would not be affected should you choose to simply walk by the Recruiters on your Campus, not paying them a second glance. However, only by it being there do those, whose views differ from yours, and whom choose to join the Military, get to exercise their right of self determination. After all you do not condone discrimination, by your own words.

Perhaps in that Military History class, you will also come across the quote "Every country has an Army, either it's own or someone else's." Sadly proven in this world many times over.

And yes, I'm in the Military. I joined shortly after leaving University. I highly recommend the Geneva Conventions as an educational read for yourself. Once you have read them, kindly retract your statement of that "there is no shortage of evidence contradicting Canada's lawful use of force"

"Canada's military history is no more than the history of one state's appeasement of the dominant Empire, whether British or American." Really? Canada's birth as a Nation from my point of view? Vimy Ridge, not a classroom.

Veronica Gibson

 

[paracowboy]

shining examples of why certain animals eat their young. I like University students.


Broiled.