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would this make the milcot more viable?

Consider the following... I've had a basic cargo milcot bottom out repeatedly while driving on a moderately maintained dirt road.
Just a Sig Op said:
It takes alot to bottom out a Milcot, will look in my notes but suspension travel/rate and repost later (when you say bottom out, I trust you mean the suspension or where you grounding the vehicle?)

According to Willy's post they are "upgrading" to another highway tire because the last ones sucked off road.

Actually Firestone SteelTex tires no longer being made, and about 300,000 of them have been recently recalled, hence the decision to go to Michelin LTX AT's
 
http://www.rodmillen.com/special/httv/video/httv2.mpg

Same power plant as the Milcots.
 
Michellin X tires. They are on the LS, Iltis, ML, HL. (See a pattern here?) don't get me wrong, they are far better than what we had in the first place on those vehicles (well, maybe not the HL, especially the wrecker, but that is debateable). As for the specialty off-road tires (the grabbers and their ilk), most are way too soft for what we do. Regardless of how well they do off road, the fact is most vehicles rack up their mileage on pavement (Edmonton to Wainwright, Pet to Meaford, etc.). Full time off-road tires would do excellent in the field, but we'd be replacing them every EX (and those of you that own a set of mudders know how much they cost).
Those track thingys are a major pain in the petunias to keep running. The amount of strain they put on the steering system and power train is way out side of what the trucks are designed for.
The Milcots are not perfect, and the fleet management system is kind of using them as an experiment to see how much money we "might" save over their projected life cycle.
I also have to agree with lostrover. Those of us that remember the 5/4's often note the similarities (it's still a chevy truck with extra suspension, that's it) and I've seen what Driver Wheel has been reduced to (I've taught enough of them to know). Now the Driver Wheeled is all about the mileage and the hours, not about technique or capabilities. I've pulled more people, in all types of vehicles, out of crap that they should not have gotten stuck in or should not have tried in the first place because it was so obvious (to someone that knows how to operate the vehicle) that the vehicle could not do it (4 ML's in the middle of a dry lakebed in Wainwright, I'm amazed they got in as far as they did!).
Oh, and don't tell me "But I was only doing about 25!" when your front diff has a piece of granite inside of it/steering shaft is broken clean off/fuel tank is ripped off. (unless you are in an LS, then all the above are normal).
 
as per Wookiler, the addition of Michelin X series tires and proper driver trainingwuld solve alot of supposed issues with the Milcot, the Michelin XCL and XZL are both offered in 7.50R16E sizes almost identical in size to the 245/75R16 it is currently sporting, however as stated the majority of km are spent on hardpack thus negates the need for a more aggressive tread pattern.  Aggressive treads are at home in extreme muddy and techincal rock scenario's only, the lack of siping reduced wet weather/snow handling and the spaced lugs of the treat equal less contact pressure with the ground.  Data plates in all the SMP fleet state different tire pressures for different terrain etc.....when is the last time you saw somebody air down there tires in the field??  Decreasing tire pressure equtes to a larger tire footprint on the ground, thus more contact area which =a greater potential for traction.  Having worked on contract with the DOD and MOD, the basis has been that the answer is driver training.  GM Defence in association with TACOM developed the requirement for the CUCV II and III (CUCV II aka our Milcot) turn-key lease operations and remanufacturing have proved to be essential in the modern defense climate.  Take some time and read the pubs on the LUVW Milcot......seems there is a strorage buin in the rear box for something amazing...........tire chains, funny how the only vehicles we see using them are LAV's, yet they are EIS for the entire SMP fleet (but you might have to go to the UK or Norway to see them being used).  Apart from the drive it like you stole it mentality of most drivers in the CF, the lack of driver training has once again negated the virtues and purpose of the transfer box (ie low range) and features such as locking differentials.  Maintainers are overwhelmed dealing with repairs as a direct result of abuse by there operators/drivers.  The vehicle is a tool, and is essential to complete ones mission, one needs to treat it with respect, for should you lose mobility, the mission is in jeopordy.  The CUCV II/Milcot is a fastastic platorm in the right environment, it has an EMP (Extended Mobility Platform) option, features such as CTIS (constant tire infaltion system), Lift package, Hydro Lock front and rear differentials, same tires/rims as the Humvee platform.  The Milcot is fitted with both front and rear reciever hitches............why..........as they are designed to be used with a multi mount winch.  Regretfully recovery operation in the CF and US Army have made this a specialized task, however the US Army is begining to see the rewards of self recovery operations once again (the option of blowing in place or recovery, is now begining to change to self recovery first......recovery second then final option blow in place). Winching operation, Kinetic recoveries et all.... should be taught to all operators and practiced regularily until competency is gained (recovery operation can be leathal..........kinda of like a C6 in the hand of a crazy gunman..........how hard is it to split an MLVW in half??............with improper reovery.......very easy....amazing how a winch cable will just slice through all that steel like it was paper.............finally stopped half way through the rear Rockwell diff) 
 
Agreed. Totally.

We teach self - recovery on the LAV III's, but it is barely even mentioned in most other courses. Part of the reason is the compressed time frame. Self - recovery should be one of the more important parts taught.

RANT ON:
As to the "abuse" issue, you have no idea how many times one of us grease monkey types have become rabid, frothing at the mouth, creatures wearing cover-alls when some troop tells us an out right lie.  :mad:

Listen, EVERYONE, when something breaks, tell the mechs/gun plummers/mat techs/fcs dudes what happened. If you were doing something stupid, admit it. Know why? We know. We know the machines, we know the materials used, we know how much strain it takes to snap a 3 inch, solid steel, steering shaft clean. If you don't know what happened, then you don't know. Trying to cover your ass will only get your maintainer upset. Realize that we have no authority whatso ever when it comes to accidents. We NEED to know how it broke so we can make sure it won't happen again.
RANT OFF:
sorry about that, had to get that off my chest.  ::)
 
;D  I concur.  I've broken tons of sh*t from m113s to the Iltis and always told my MRT what I did.  Not only did they fix it faster (because they knew exactly what to look for) when something really wasn't my fault they knew I was telling the truth because that's what I always did. 
  As for the self recovery it was always taught on the FMC Driver wheel crse (it's come in handy quite a few times too).  It's a shame it has been removed mostly due to time constraints.
  We used to go with the vehicle to the shop and help repair it too.  That really cut down on stupidity on the drivers part too cause it meant more work for you too not just the MRT guys.
 
From what I heard about half of the Milcots will be getting upgrades including a huge liftkit, new transmition and super mega insanly agressive tires. This upgrade will cost approx $10000. Every unit should get atleast one or two milcots with this upgrade within the next year. This is the word that has been going around the 38 Brg Artillery Tactical Group for the last few months. I know you can't beleive everything you hear, but it's really the logical choice.
 
"From what I heard about half of the Milcots will be getting upgrades including a huge liftkit..."

- Considering Ottawa just stopped CMTC from proceding with ANY more modded vehs, and basically told CMTC that rather than slightly mod the MILCOT, we should buy an Observer/Controller specific vehicle, I doubt the MILCOT will be modded soon.
 
here is some pics of the CMTC Milcot
DSC01115.JPG

DSC01116.JPG

DSC01117.JPG

DSC01119.JPG
 
I like that MILCOTS  ;D  alot better than the pos we got right now.
 
*Drool*

I want one......

by the way, forgive the ignorance but what is CMTC?
 
for 50K each, thats what they all should look like.

The Milcot from what I can see is the 4X4 base model of the Silverado(MSRP 20 000) we got:

upgrade to 6.5 L Deisel Engine and transmission
new bumpers
green paint
24 volt accompanying electrical  system including 2 new batteries, and one hanging out the bottom of the truck to be smashed...
Rifle racks
map light
no coffe holder
blackout drive lights
pindlehook you can't use without a bolt kit
skid plate


only for an extra 30 grand, 150% the price of the truck... considering you could drive a base model truck into a custom shop and probably have those mods excluding the engine swap done for 10 grand with them giggling behind your back at how you'd been ripped off I'm not impressed

and I doubt that the engine swap which would be harder than just installing a different engine in the first place and not having to buy the undesired gasoline engine and tranny, would cost 20 grand at said shop.

no I'm not impressed with the milcot at all, it was not worth the money we paid for it, not even close.
 
A few hours ago, I had one of the leased Ford 250 4X4 Crew Cabs down on the southern fireguard West of Yellow Route.  Then a prarie hailstorm hit.  Big. I had to cut my losses and turn around, as the waterholes were getting a lot bigger real fast and the whole fireguard was turning to goo.  The 250 in 4 low made it out.  Sometimes sideways, but it kept on going.  The MILCOTS - and me - would still be there.

The MILCOTS ain't even made in Canada, I think the 250 is.
 
gravyboat said:
Don't forget the dash clock that has to be reset every time you turn the truck off.
All are like that?  I've only been privy to ride in one, and yes, resetting the friggin' clock every time!  Man, sometimes it's the simple stuff...
 
c_canuk said:
for 50K each, thats what they all should look like.

The Milcot from what I can see is the 4X4 base model of the Silverado(MSRP 20 000) we got:

upgrade to 6.5 L Deisel Engine and transmission
new bumpers
green paint
24 volt accompanying electrical  system including 2 new batteries, and one hanging out the bottom of the truck to be smashed...
Rifle racks
map light
no coffe holder
blackout drive lights
pindlehook you can't use without a bolt kit
skid plate


only for an extra 30 grand, 150% the price of the truck... considering you could drive a base model truck into a custom shop and probably have those mods excluding the engine swap done for 10 grand with them giggling behind your back at how you'd been ripped off I'm not impressed

and I doubt that the engine swap which would be harder than just installing a different engine in the first place and not having to buy the undesired gasoline engine and tranny, would cost 20 grand at said shop.

no I'm not impressed with the milcot at all, it was not worth the money we paid for it, not even close.


You also have to remember the warranty that GM is equiping with these trucks for several years after purchase, which is significant when you think of it.
 
The cup holder problem can be is easily solved with a coffee tray from Tim's, on the black center rack; or some of the add on cup holders from Crappy Tire.  For the clock use your watch, or tape a small travel alarm clock to the dash (I have done that, and it works).  No comment on how it handles off road.


But this new one at least looks like it could handle something more then a dirt road ::) 

So the question is if we all complain about the rest of our kit, will the replace it all ???

 
They handle bad off-road but I would love to drive  the CMTC one.
 
You also have to remember the warranty that GM is equiping with these trucks for several years after purchase, which is significant when you think of it.

well the 20 000 basemodel come with a 5 year bumper to bumper warranty... as well as 20 percent of gas for a year, and a few other things... isn't that the same warranty on the milcots?
 
c_canuk said:
well the 20 000 basemodel come with a 5 year bumper to bumper warranty... as well as 20 percent of gas for a year, and a few other things... isn't that the same warranty on the milcots?

20 000 basemodel  ??? hopefully by then we won't still have them  ;D
 
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