Whither the G-Wagon

[Thompson_JM]

Why do I get the feeling that we are going to loose the LSVW and G-Wagon, and if we're lucky we'll get a new vehicle a few YEARS after that all happens....  :crybaby:

Personally if the Reg Force wants our Milverados, they can have em... The G-Wagon is so much more capable then they ever could be.....  Its a half decent Dom-Ops vehicle on hardpack, but nowhere near as rugged or versatile as the LUVW

 

[Sig_Des]

Why do I get the feeling that we are going to loose the LSVW and G-Wagon, and if we're lucky we'll get a new vehicle a few YEARS after that all happens....  :crybaby:

Personally if the Reg Force wants our Milverados, they can have em... The G-Wagon is so much more capable then they ever could be.....  Its a half decent Dom-Ops vehicle on hardpack, but nowhere near as rugged or versatile as the LUVW

Wouldn't be too bad if it had a couple inches of lift, decent tires, and a good skid-plate... But yeah, I'll take a G-wagon over the milcot any day right now.

 

[Thompson_JM]

Wouldn't be too bad if it had a couple inches of lift, decent tires, and a good skid-plate... But yeah, I'll take a G-wagon over the milcot any day right now.

Except the guys at CMTC did that out in Wainwrong and the Damned thing STILL got stuck!!!  ;D

But yes, it did work better off road... somewhat...

Still out in Sufferfield?

 

[Sig_Des]

Except the guys at CMTC did that out in Wainwrong and the Damned thing STILL got stuck!!!  ;D

But yes, it did work better off road... somewhat...

Still out in Sufferfield?

Nah, weeks reprieve, and back to the suck for more. Best part about the CMTC Milcots (from what I hear from little birds), is that once higher levels heard of the mods, from the lofty heights came word to put it back to the way it was.

 

[dapaterson]

Nah, weeks reprieve, and back to the suck for more. Best part about the CMTC Milcots (from what I hear from little birds), is that once higher levels heard of the mods, from the lofty heights came word to put it back to the way it was.

Oddly enough, when local modifications are made, that's what happens.  You have no authority to modify your issued equipment.

 

[Thompson_JM]

Oddly enough, when local modifications are made, that's what happens.  You have no authority to modify your issued equipment.

This may be true, but that truck is a serious PoS........ We lost a lot of capability when we gave up the Iltis for that thing.... If its useless off road what happens when we have to do a Dom Op and there are no roads due to a disaster... etc... it could happen... and if we toss the G-Wagon before a replacement is put into service, then where do we end up?

I still cant fully understand where the CF is going with this whole vehicle project but my gut feeling has me a little nervous about where we will end up...  :endnigh:

 

[Fishbone Jones]

This may be true, but that truck is a serious PoS........ We lost a lot of capability when we gave up the Iltis for that thing.... If its useless off road what happens when we have to do a Dom Op and there are no roads due to a disaster... etc... it could happen... and if we toss the G-Wagon before a replacement is put into service, then where do we end up?

I still cant fully understand where the CF is going with this whole vehicle project but my gut feeling has me a little nervous about where we will end up...  :endnigh:

Whereever it goes we'll have to see.

Recce didn't turn in our Iltis for the milcot. We had both all along and it wasn't meant as a replacement for the Iltis. Don't like the truck? Start another thread. There are plenty that do like it, especially when it is used as intended.

Let's keep on track here and stick with the disposition of the G Wagon, shall we?

 

[dapaterson]

I must admit that this is the first time I've ever seen someone referring to the Iltis as "the good old days".


The Iltis was replaced because it was well beyond its useful life.  The decision to go back to the future and replace it with an off-the-shelf truck painted green with a few minor modifications (Milverado), along with a more robust vehicle (G Wagon) was driven by cost.

There was a finite amount of money available to replace the fleet.  An all G-Wagon fleet would have provided significantly fewer vehicles than the mixed fleet, which would have been a dramatic decrease in capability.  The mixed fleet provided greater numbers of vehicles, but at the cost of some individual capability.  That's a trade off that is often made - there are other vehicles that can be used off road or in more degraded conditions.

There is not an unlimited defence budget; choices have to be made between options.  In this case, the military leadership decided where and how to draw the line between the less capable but less expensive and more capable and more expensive to have a fleet mix to respond to scenarios.

 

[vonGarvin]

The Iltis was replaced because it was well beyond its useful life. Sgt. Short and Cpl Beerenfenger were killed while driving one.

I prefer the Iltis to the Geländewagen ("G-Wagon").  It's much more than nostalgia, because the Iltis served its role of a utility vehicle much better than its replacement, was manoeuverable, fit well into tight traffic, etc.  I know, it's just opinion, but here we are less than ten years after delivery looking at getting rid of it already.

Edited to replace wrong word!

 

[Thompson_JM]

...but here we are less than ten years after delivery looking at getting rid of it already...

This is the point that makes me go Hrmmm....


I do understand the reasoning for why they went with the Milverado/G-wagon mixed purchase.... I still dont have to like it....  In my opinion it makes worse the gap between Reg's and Reserves when it comes to Training....  but I digress on that point...

What really throws me, is why in heck they are looking to toss the G-Wagon now, when it's still a perfectly good vehicle for what it was intended for... and well within its usable lifespan? And there is the question of just what exactly happens to the Reserve Armd Recce units... I can only assume they would be, (and should be) getting whatever the replacement is.

 

[dapaterson]

Given the mechanical condition of the Iltis fleet, options were (a) complete, comprehensive, very expensive overhaul or (b) replacement.  Replacement was the optimal choice.

While some incidents may have hastened the implementation, the project was launched in 1996 with initial contracts signed in 2002.


The Iltis was acquired  in the mid 80s, and lasted under 20 years.  The replacement project was launched when the fleet was 10 years old.

The GWagon is now roughly 10 years old; starting the work to replace it now is entirely consistent with prior practice (see: The Iltis).

 

[Thompson_JM]

The Iltis was acquired  in the mid 80s, and lasted under 20 years.  The replacement project was launched when the fleet was 10 years old.

The GWagon is now roughly 10 years old; starting the work to replace it now is entirely consistent with prior practice (see: The Iltis).

Ahhhhh.... Now that makes a bit more sense.....

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Given the mechanical condition of the Iltis fleet, options were (a) complete, comprehensive, very expensive overhaul or (b) replacement.  Replacement was the optimal choice.

While some incidents may have hastened the implementation, the project was launched in 1996 with initial contracts signed in 2002.


The Iltis was acquired  in the mid 80s, and lasted under 20 years.  The replacement project was launched when the fleet was 10 years old.

The GWagon is now roughly 10 years old; starting the work to replace it now is entirely consistent with prior practice (see: The Iltis).

Unless you look at the timelines in the original post. That, and there is no replacement project started, that we know of.

 

[dapaterson]

There's another thread on the "Logistics Vehicle Modernization Project" that will encompass replacements for LUVW, LSVW and HLVW.


The problem of the Reserves is not a question of vehicles, but of the Armoured Corps not knowing what to do with the Reserves - the platform isn't the underlying issue.

 

[Thompson_JM]

There's another thread on the "Logistics Vehicle Modernization Project" that will encompass replacements for LUVW, LSVW and HLVW.


The problem of the Reserves is not a question of vehicles, but of the Armoured Corps not knowing what to do with the Reserves - the platform isn't the underlying issue.

Oh its not just the Armoured Corps............. 

 

[vonGarvin]

The GWagon is now roughly 10 years old; starting the work to replace it now is entirely consistent with prior practice (see: The Iltis).

Not at all.  The LUVW is to be divested just after it serves 10 years.  In Haiti on Op HALO in 2004, we were using Iltis.  Athena got their LUVW in...04? 05?  It is scheduled right now to be divested in 2016 (ish).  That is just over 10 years.  By the Iltis-calendar, we would have received the LUVW circa 1995 (ish)

 

[dapaterson]

The Iltis was scheduled for divestment earlier than it occured; I have no doubt that the LVMP will face delays as well, pushing the reitrement of the G-Wagon to the right.  (DND's major projects rarely deliver in accordance with their initial timelines, but that is many other discussions).

The timelines are not identical, but are similar.

 

[a_majoor]

A bit out of left field, but this vehicle is designed for most of the same purposes served by Iltis and G-wagon, fits inside a CH-47 (bonus) and could be available right now. Second bopnus for political weenies looking for "benefits" and "offsets"; the company already has a factory in Canada:

http://www.military.com/video/combat-vehicles/armored-vehicles/the-general-dyamics-flyer/763887735001/

 

[my72jeep]

Look's like the love child of  one night stand between a hummer and a Kodiak big bear.

 

[McG]

A bit out of left field, but this vehicle is designed for most of the same purposes served by Iltis and G-wagon, fits inside a CH-47 (bonus) and could be available right now.

In the ATV thread, the heavy end of the proposals got into vehicles like Iltis and Growler.