Whither the G-Wagon

[Fishbone Jones]

So my understanding from the Corps conference I attended, not long ago, is that the GWagon is on it's way out. Completely off the books by 2015 and a 50% draw down by 2012. IIRC.

It's was stated also that the Reserves won't get any of the TAPV or CCV. Without getting into that whole big discussion of maint, training, etc (we've discussed this already a number of times for various armoured vehicle) this makes sense.

The problem is no replacement has been looked at or announced for the GWagon. Given procurment times, if the status quo is maintained, there will be no replacement in place when the GWagon is gone.

I really hope that if all the above is true, there is a group of mandarins working away in secret somewhere that are totally on top of the problem, and will deem us worthy of an explanation in the short term, so the Reserves don't have to subsist on rumour until 201?.

So, has anyone else heard anything?

Perhaps the glacial movement on the GWagon cupola fix is just a way of getting us used to having no vehicles while we keep the existing stock in great shape for the highest bidder. Then again maybe my tinfoil is getting too tight ;D

 

[WLSC]

IT doesn't make sence at all !!!  They are almost brand new.  I can understand not deployed in A-stan but its not the only mission we have or will have !!!  How the training can be done with that type of véhicule ?? 

 

[tango22a]

RG:

I don't want to " rain on your parade", but doesn't it seem logical that NO money, No role and NO vehicles = NO PRes Armoured Regiments. I hope my cynicism is not showing up too much!


Unhappily,


tango22a

 

[vonGarvin]

If the brain trust in procurements is to be trusted, then the role of the G-Wagon will be "filled" with apple carts.

As stated, though it's no longer of use in Afghanistan, I'd like to point out that other nations used unarmoured vehicles there, AND that we don't just serve there.  We had the lovely Iltis and the LSVW in Haiti in 2004, and they both served rather well.

 

[WLSC]

My questio

RG:

I don't want to " rain on your parade", but doesn't it seem logical that NO money, No role and NO vehicles = NO PRes Armoured Regiments. I hope my cynicism is not showing up too much!


Unhappily,


tango22a

Excacly my thouht !  Am I the only one or I see a twisted way to take away more units, role or what ever else ??

 

[Fishbone Jones]

RG:

I don't want to " rain on your parade", but doesn't it seem logical that NO money, No role and NO vehicles = NO PRes Armoured Regiments. I hope my cynicism is not showing up too much!


Unhappily,


tango22a

Raining on what parade?  The Armoured Reserve are not the sole users of this vehicle. We're not here to raise a spectre of some sort of boogieman, decimation of reserve units or anything else.

We're here to try determine the disposition of the GWagon.

That's all.

Please stay on topic or find a discussion in another thread.

Jeez, second and third reply and we're headed for a train wreck already. :

 

[WLSC]

We're here to try determine the disposition of the GWagon.

Then, I say let's use them of road and really see what they can do the more we can before they are taken away.  So we can buy them cheaper when they'l go in surplus sales > 

 

[PuckChaser]

The same thing is happening for the LSVW.... plans to lifecycle the equipment out, but no replacement even remotely looked at.

Very confused about the GWagon though, I think it would be a good DomOp utility vehicle. Definitely has a lot of life left in the tires.

 

[Petard]

I'm not one of the mandarins, I'm on the far periphery of this project, but there is something going on.
There is project beginning to replace the G Wagon, the LSVW, and the HLVW, its called the Logistic Vehicle Modernization Project
http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/caj/documents/vol_11/iss_3/CAJ_Vol11.3_02_e.pdf
It is incredibly complex, it does or will involve more direct feedback from the user community, but it is certainly not an easy problem to even define.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Then, I say let's use them of road and really see what they can do the more we can before they are taken away.  So we can buy them cheaper when they'l go in surplus sales >

The cupola mounting hardware has been deemed defective. The fix is out there apparently, but we're told there is no money in the project to fund it. In the meantime, the cupola variants are grounded, and have been since before the summer, as per a CANLANDGEN (CANFORGEN?), pending the fix or a four hour\ week gun plumber inspection.

The soccer mom version is still allowed to be operated, but whoever has them seems to have hidden them and won't lend them out or discuss them.

 

[tango22a]

RG:


Well, after inserting foot up a$$, AGAIN!!, and getting thrown under the bus, AGAIN!!, I think I'll just ride off into the sunset.


Cheers,


tango22a

 

[Armymedic]

Pity, I honest believe that the G wagon was one of the best military vehicles I have driven. Its too bad we (the CF we) tried to use them to fit every role, instead of the ones it was designed and purchased for.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Also to bad we bought the Iltis design when the German army was retiring them and didn't buy into the Steyer/G-wagon back then. It's a good vehicle for the reserves and likely a great vehicle for some low intensity missions. Judging by the lack of success in most "Wunder-Uber, do all" vehicle porcurment trials around the world I would suspect that no new replacement will be forthcoming anytime soon. Even if they do select a new vehicle, the costs will require a 1 for 2 or 3 vehicle replacement, which compounds the 1 for 2 Iltis replacement of the M36.

Just to stir the pot, we could buy cheaply this from our dear friends in Russia http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuepkesNXhQ&feature=related

As I recall it is also offered with a Cummin's diesel

 

[Dissident]

"Hello Reserve,

Please hand over your MilCOTS.

Sincerily,

The Regular Force

 

[Colin Parkinson]

"Hello Reserve,

Please hand over your MilCOTS.

Sincerily,

The Regular Force

P.S. thanks for the Bisons and Cougars

Fixed it for you......

 

[NavyShooter]

And getting new Jeeps/equivalent is EASY compared to getting new ships....

They can pretty much buy light jeep-ish vehicles almost anywhere that will fit 'most' of what's needed.

You should see what the Navy's going through to get new ships............talk about "faint hope" indeed.

As for the G-wagon, I think it's replacement might be a lower priority issue because it is almost a COTS purchase. 

NS

 

[Fergie]

    This is rather baseless-- rumour/talk amongst some NCO's--but I have heard rumblings of ATV's (or something to that effect) becoming a primary vehicle for Armour Recce reserve units.  I found this quite ridiculous at first... Comms would seriously degrade (b!^@h in back with a manpack?) and carrying essential kit would become comparatively more difficult... but after a while I could "appreciate" the pros from a budgetary and training perspective (if mud recce is the aim).  After all they're not meant for combat, they would just be "training aids"  : for reservists.  Clearly this needs to be taken with a pound of salt (and is an absolutely terrible idea if realistic/augmenting Reg force training is the aim), but I thought I'd mention it for the sake of it.

...It sure would be a blast to spend a weekend blazing around the training area on a zone recce with something like that  8)

-Fergie

 

[Colin Parkinson]

It's been sort of done before
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3571/3346586231_a2cb472732.jpg

 

[Fishbone Jones]

    This is rather baseless-- rumour/talk amongst some NCO's--but I have heard rumblings of ATV's (or something to that effect) becoming a primary vehicle for Armour Recce reserve units.  I found this quite ridiculous at first... Comms would seriously degrade (b!^@h in back with a manpack?) and carrying essential kit would become comparatively more difficult... but after a while I could "appreciate" the pros from a budgetary and training perspective (if mud recce is the aim).  After all they're not meant for combat, they would just be "training aids"  : for reservists.  Clearly this needs to be taken with a pound of salt (and is an absolutely terrible idea if realistic/augmenting Reg force training is the aim), but I thought I'd mention it for the sake of it.

...It sure would be a blast to spend a weekend blazing around the training area on a zone recce with something like that  8)

-Fergie

It's been sort of done before
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3571/3346586231_a2cb472732.jpg

Completely baseless.

Actually, it has been done before. An Arm'd Recce Tp, from the Ont R, were given ATVs as their principle vehicle (around 2003 IIRC). For a variety of reasons, it was an abject failure, and that was only one troop. On a Sqn orbat the results would have been horrendous. The TO&E, tactics, comms, etc are totally unmanageable. This is neither a recce or warfighting vehicle. They were not even training aids. To pretend otherwise is downright stupid.

Moving on, ATVs were to go to at least one Res Arm'd Regt in SW Ontario. They were only to be used in supplementing the G Wagons in the Reg't role for it's territorial tasking. That idea and issue got about as much real support from the Army as the rest of the Territorial Force fiasco.

At any rate, you should run as fast as you can, because someone, without a schmick is trying to blow smoke up your arsehole. Oh, and quit listening to foolish rumours.

 

[George Wallace]

    This is rather baseless-- rumour/talk amongst some NCO's--but I have heard rumblings of ATV's (or something to that effect) becoming a primary vehicle for Armour Recce reserve units.  I found this quite ridiculous at first... Comms would seriously degrade (b!^@h in back with a manpack?) and carrying essential kit would become comparatively more difficult... but after a while I could "appreciate" the pros from a budgetary and training perspective (if mud recce is the aim).  After all they're not meant for combat, they would just be "training aids"  : for reservists.  Clearly this needs to be taken with a pound of salt (and is an absolutely terrible idea if realistic/augmenting Reg force training is the aim), but I thought I'd mention it for the sake of it.

...It sure would be a blast to spend a weekend blazing around the training area on a zone recce with something like that  8)

-Fergie

Try this for some ideas:

ATV RECCE TRIALS