US Presidential Election 2024 - Trump vs Harris - Vote Hard with a Vengence

[lenaitch]

Dairy 1969 from Ontario and Quebec out
from 1961 chicken and eggs started in BC and other provinces followed
1971 the federal system implemented
1973 turkeys added to supply management
1979 the federal import restrictions

my point is more why everyone makes a big deal about milk and not so much the others

As stated - I don't know.

Guessing

• massive Quebec and large Ontario dairy lobby.
• greater economic impact; dairy is about $16.2Bn, poultry about $6.8Bn.

 

[FSTO]

Speaking of Milk products:

Canada’s dairy farms dump 7 per cent of all milk produced, study contends

Researchers say waste results in excess greenhouse gas emissions and needlessly pollutes soil, air and water

www.theglobeandmail.com

Canada’s dairy farms dump 7 per cent of all milk produced, study contends - 18 Oct 24​

Canada’s dairy industry discarded approximately 7 per cent of all milk it produced over a 10-year period, according to a new estimate, as part of a supply management system that is designed to control output and keep prices stable.

In a paper recently published in the Ecological Economics journal, the authors teamed up to calculate how much milk dairy farmers dispose of. They determined that more than 6.8 billion litres of raw milk – and possibly as much as 10 billion litres – disappeared from Canadian farms between 2012 and 2021, worth at least $6.7-billion.

“If you’re wasting 7 per cent of the milk you produce, well, logically, you can only come to the conclusion that milk is too expensive in Canada,” Sylvain Charlebois, a Dalhousie University professor and one of the study’s authors, said in an interview.

“That’s why it’s been taboo for dairy farmers. They don’t want to talk about it.”

Whereas prices for most commodities are set in competitive markets, milk prices in Canada are set in a supply management system that is intended to ensure stable income for farmers while supporting a domestic supply of milk and butterfat. Production quotas are set based on monthly market analysis. According to the Canadian Dairy Commission’s website, “costly surpluses can be avoided by controlling production effectively.”

The CDC contested the new paper’s data and assumptions, adding that when milk cannot be processed owing to unforeseen circumstances, producers will often send it to other provinces, donate it to food banks or feed it to calves.

“Disposing large volumes of milk is not sustainable and takes place on rare occasion,” executive director Philippe Charlebois wrote in an e-mail.

“Based on verifiable data, of the approximately 9.6 billion litres of milk produced in Canada in 2023-2024, 99.9% of butterfat and 99.1% of solids non-fat in Canada were processed and marketed.”

Jacques Lefebvre, chief executive officer of Dairy Farmers of Canada, said the paper’s conclusions are drawn from estimates, not a “robust data set,” and require independent validation.

“Milk is disposed only as a last resort after exploring all other alternatives,” he wrote in a statement. “This is done in accordance with regulations and the costs are borne by the dairy farmers.”

The paper’s authors, however, concluded that vast quantities of milk are wasted annually owing to inefficiencies in that system. The dumped milk results in excess greenhouse gas emissions equivalent to 350,000 passenger vehicles annually, and needlessly pollutes soil, air and water, according to the paper, published last month. To grow feed for the cows and care for them, between 920 and 1,900 square kilometres of farmland are required, and huge volumes of water.

Prof. Charlebois said the paper’s authors, who include professors Thomas Elliot from Denmark’s Aalborg University and Benjamin Goldstein from the University of Michigan, assembled last year after an Ontario dairy farmer filmed himself dumping 30,000 litres of milk, which went viral after he published it. They met in Montreal to discuss how to determine the extent of the waste, which they said had never before been revealed by the industry or government.

They calculated national milk production based on the size of the dairy cow herd and average yield per cow, and then determined wastage by subtracting from that amount the milk sales reported by Statistics Canada.

“Boards will call farmers at the end of the month and say there’s a surplus because there’s too much production in the system, or demand has shifted,” Prof. Charlebois explained. “And so they’ll ask a bunch of farmers to dump. It’s a common practice.”

A Senate committee is considering a private member’s bill, known as C-282, which would grant significant new protections to the dairy industry. Passed by the House of Commons in June, 2023, it would prohibit the federal government from granting greater foreign access to Canada’s supply managed agriculture sectors, including dairy, eggs and poultry.

The authors said the practice of dumping milk that meets food safety standards should be halted, and that the CDC should pay farmers to document and report on how much milk they dispose of. Increased transparency, they added, would incentivize farmers to reduce their herds and move to plant-based alternatives. And the system should be reformed to penalize overproduction.

“The dairy farming community in Canada is doing nothing to limit the amount of surpluses,” Prof. Charlebois said.

“We’re not advocating for the end of supply management. We do think that supply management is part of the solution. And because we have supply management, we shouldn’t be tolerating any waste at all.”

​

I think you’d be appalled at the amount of milk dumped in the sewer by US producers.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Milk is a farm product that has a huge surplus, or would have a huge surplus if not for the various forms of control (Canada) or subsidies (US). As a result, they would lose money for the farmers.

Milk is more like a by-product of other farming: You want to eat steak? Cows will produce calves ... and milk.

 

[brihard]

Milk is a farm product that has a huge surplus, or would have a huge surplus if not for the various forms of control (Canada) or subsidies (US). As a result, they would lose money for the farmers.

Milk is more like a by-product of other farming: You want to eat steak? Cows will produce calves ... and milk.

I thought it was the other way round, with meat as a secondary product of dairy herds when cows are either male or past prime milk production? Are beef herds also milked at all?

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

No. Both sides are "specialized" these days, but as a result of rules and regulation, etc. The fundamental is that to have cattle, you always had to produce (or at least dispose of), the milk surplus. That's just how it all started. I'm just pointing out that overproducing milk in an agricultural economy is a very easy thing to do - and with capitalism's "race to the bottom" mentality, it was ruining farmers before all the controls (one way or the other - again - not just the Canadian way) came into force so that milk farmers could at least earn a basic living .

 

[brihard]

No. Both sides are "specialized" these days, but as a result of rules and regulation, etc. The fundamental is that to have cattle, you always had to produce (or at least dispose of), the milk surplus. That's just how it all started. I'm just pointing out that overproducing milk in an agricultural economy is a very easy thing to do - and with capitalism's "race to the bottom" mentality, it was ruining farmers before all the controls (one way or the other - again - not just the Canadian way) came into force so that milk farmers could at least earn a basic living .

Are beef cows producing extra milk that needs to be disposed of when not nursing calves?

Sorry, my knowledge on this is limited to I love milk and steak.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I cant remember the last time I had a glass of milk... I was probably in my teens.

 

[FSTO]

Milk is a farm product that has a huge surplus, or would have a huge surplus if not for the various forms of control (Canada) or subsidies (US). As a result, they would lose money for the farmers.

Milk is more like a by-product of other farming: You want to eat steak? Cows will produce calves ... and milk.

Dairy cows and their offspring make very very very poor steak. Beef cattle like Hereford, Angus, Shorthorn are the ones that you pay a premium for. Those worn out Holsteins are what you eat at a fast food joint.

 

[FSTO]

Are beef cows producing extra milk that needs to be disposed of when not nursing calves?

Sorry, my knowledge on this is limited to I love milk and steak.

Beef cows are not milked for humans. All of their milk goes into the calf they are supporting. Once the calf is weined from the cow, she will dry up until she lets down the milk prior to the birth of her next calf.

 

[RangerRay]

Beef cows are not milked for humans. All of their milk goes into the calf they are supporting. Once the calf is weined from the cow, she will dry up until she lets down the milk prior to the birth of her next calf.

And if any dairy cows are used for “beef”, they are old and stringy and probably only suitable for pet food or wieners.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

And if any dairy cows are used for “beef”, they are old and stringy and probably only suitable for pet food or wieners.

Noses, lips and arseholes.

 

[Kirkhill]

Are beef cows producing extra milk that needs to be disposed of when not nursing calves?

Sorry, my knowledge on this is limited to I love milk and steak.

There are some dual purpose breeds but they are not very common in North America.

Beef cattle tend to be Herefords and Aberdeen Angus (and Shorthorns - thx @FSTO) and various crosses along with some Charolais and Longhorns.
The dairy cattle herd is dominated by Holsteins (Black and Whites) also known as Frisians, along with Jerseys and Guernseys (higher fat and protein) and some people still raising Ayrshires and Swiss Reds.

The beef cattle are managed on an annual cycle that takes advantage of feed lots and ranges. The cows calf on a natural cycle and the calfs are raised in the field with their mothers who feed them. Cattle are slaughtered at 14 to 18 months after finishing on grain in feed lots. Most of the slaughtered cattle are steers, castrated males, as most males are surplus to requirement. Good cows are kept back to raise more cows. Beef can be stored on the hoof or in the freezer.

Dairy cattle are managed to ensure that there is constant supply of milk. Milk only keeps 2 or 3 days unpasteurized. Pasteurized has a shelf life of 2 to 3 weeks and sterilized last over 3 months. Milk only comes from pregnant cows that have given birth but the market demands milk daily. As a result the farmer has to keep impregnating a portion of the herd on an ongoing basis. That results in an over production of calves of both sexes that are slaughtered young as veal. Good milkers will be kept for 4 or 5 years, in some cases longer, until they too are slaughtered as Canners.

There aren't that many bulls of either type. There is a small "herd" of those that are "milked" of semen and used to inseminate the cattle in the field or the barn. 75-80% of dairy cattle are artificially inseminated. Most beef cattle are inseminated the old-fashioned way.

...

In the 1970s, when supply management was introduced, a lot of milk was being bought up by the government and converted to skim milk powder and butter. There were warehouses full of the stuff across the country. The government regularly shipped the powder to the third world as famine relief. That "market" dried up when the third world started to refuse the powders. One reason was that their need wasn't as great, there were fewer famines and they could afford to be more picky. The other reason was they objected to our dryer technology. We were burning natural gas, which we considered clean, and sprayed the milk directly into the exhaust gas stream. That was the same technology we used to feed ourselves and to this day I am still perfectly comfortable with eating and drinking the milk produced that way. However market demand has moved towards indirect heating where the air into which the milk is sprayed is heated by passing it over a heat exchanger that can be heated by natural gas or any other fuel. The milk doesn't come in contact with the combustion products of the natural gas.

But the knock on effect has been that there was a loss of sales outlets for milk which had a negative impact on quotas.

Those spray dryers were also drying the waste product from the cheese manufacturing process, whey. We couldn't give that stuff away. I remember prices like 4 cents a lb. It was bought by bakers for bread and hog farmers as feed.

New technology arrived though in the form of membrane filters that allowed milk and whey to be fractionated to separate out bacteria, fat, proteins of different types, the sugars, the salts and ultimately leave RO water. RO water, as most of you probably know, has less salts in it and is comparable to distilled water.

With the fractionation of the "waste" skim milk and whey then products could be tailored for specific markets. The value of both the skim and whey rose as they were converted into various protein isolates and concentrates. Now, instead of settling for 4 cents a lb as hog food the dairies are selling whey at 10 to 20 dollars a lb as Whey Protein Isolate.

....

In the US or New Zealand, absent the quotas, the surplus milk and whey would all go to fractionation and drying and be sold on the commodities market alongside soy bean, corn and fish meals as protein sources.

...

PS Highland Cattle are a sure sign of the hobby farmer.

 

[Kirkhill]

Noses, lips and arseholes.

Wieners are more likely to be hearts, lungs, kidneys, liver and tongues along with mechanically deboned meats. MDM is scraped off the bones after the prime cuts have been taken.

Noses, lips and arseholes end up with the bonemeal after rendering to release the tallow.

Specified Risk Material is the material associated with the transmission of mad cow disease. It constitutes the brain and the central nervous system. Those products are not allowed back into the food chain for either food or feed. Mad cow disease was transmitted through bone meal that was fed back to the cattle as calcium supplements. SRM is disposed of and not sold.

In checking this I note that some halal suppliers seem to be offering brains. I also note that I have heard of a lot of halal butchers having major problems with CFIA, AHS and even the RCMP.

 

[dimsum]

This was in the Globe and Mail yesterday.
Pedantic note, the entity that we now call Canada have not been part of the American experience since July 4 1776.

I mean, if we want to be really pedantic, it would be “British North America” heritage minutes until July 1, 1867…

 

[FSTO]

PS Highland Cattle are a sure sign of the hobby farmer.

There is no doubt about that!