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US Presidential Election 2020

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Remius

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Fishbone Jones said:
Following are all legit questions.

Yes they are.  And good ones too.

So, even before all the ballots are counted and some states are near even and can flip either way, he's supposed to concede?

No.  Nothing says he needs to concede.  But his side is actually even claiming victory despite all evidence to the contrary.  As I stated, the refusal to begin the transition process concurrently is the issue.  When has that ever happened before?
   


With hundreds of affidavits, which are eye witness statements, alleging illegalities. Some of which were shown on TV, proof of counting machine malfunction actually flipping votes. Given all that, should Trump not be afforded his due process to legal recourse?

If any of it was substantial and widespread and provable sure.  So far very few of the accusations have any proof at all that any of that happened.  There will always be irregularities but they are so few that they do not indicate widespread fraud in the numbers they are alleging.  Under questioning for example, the postal worker that claimed to see fraud recanted as his story was so full of holes.  A lawyer had to concede that his statement had no basis after a judge reminded him of his membership standard as a member of the bar when it was falsely claimed that GOP observers were not there for counting when they were in certain districts. Or the guy that Giuliai trotted out at the four seasons landscaping company next to the sex shop press conference who is now shown to be a quack activist who happens to be convicted sex offender.  Very credible indeed.

Again, recounts and lawsuits as required but it can still happen concurrently with the transition process.
 

Lastly,  could you point me to something that proves Trump weaponized the DOJ to stall, what, exactly?

I doubt it. You already doubt any and all news sources as you stated that most people would find reliable, so even with the links I will provide I doubt it would persuade you.  As to his stalling I think it has to do with two things.

1) Control of the Senate is still undecided.  This move is likely to drum up support to make sure it goes red.

2)  Trump is eventually going to leave that is a certainty.  But on his way out he will claim it was all rigged and that's why he lost.  He can't accept that twice now, the electorate rejected him.  This time it is both via the popular vote by large margin and the College vote (last time it was only the popular vote).  The popular vote does not decide the election but it is still an indicator of nation wide support. It's probably why he can't let that go either from last time.  H

He is creating a false narrative to keep his support base.  And they will fall for it.  They are being played plain and simple but they refuse to see it and this narrative will satisfy them.  And it sets up a potential run for 2024. 

Remember, he has claimed that the process was rigged when Obama won, when Trump lost certain primaries, when he ran against Clinton, in 2018 and now in 2020.  It's a pattern with so far no real proof.  He has lost every single court case in regards to this rigging business.  It's the same old tired song and dance.

As to the weaponization of the DOJ, this has been the opinion of several people given that Barr has done so many shady things for Trump that top prosecutors have been resigning for a while. This is just the lastest.

https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-2020-election-results/2020/11/10/933395215/head-of-doj-s-election-crimes-unit-steps-down-after-barr-oks-election-inquiries

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-legal-idUSKBN27Q05A

On the current weponization of the DOJ

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/525402-barr-sparks-doj-firestorm-with-election-probe

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/06/eric-holder-william-barr-weaponized-doj-426747

There are many more.




My opinion on Fox, it is calculated to to curry favour with their new masters. The thousands that are continuing to walk away. They believe they were betrayed. Perhaps the democrats as some of their own have,stated, anyone connected to Trump will become a non-person. Maybe Fox doesn't  want to be seen as being on the side of, the soon to be, shunned. Again, my opinion, I haven't dealt with Fox since election night. I really don't know if there's  media out there I trust anymore.

Who are their new masters exactly?  Rupert Murdoch still owns that company and is still one of the most watched news sources in the US.  Why all of a sudden would new masters?  That certainly didn't happen when Obama won, why now?

So people are walking away when the voice for Trump, which they have trusted for years,  suddenly reports the real news?  And they feel betrayed?  They should feel betrayed, but not because Fox is refusing to go along with what are being described as attacks on democracy.

Fair enough if there are no more media to be trusted.  I assume you speak of eth MSM.  But I'm pretty sure that social media, conspiracy bloggers and internet unknowns are not the alternative.  Largely speaking.


Calls of congrats? I don't think there's as many as people expect. China even stated they would not interfere in the election by congratulating Biden prematurely before it is actually official. Pretty sure I heard a lot of countries are following suit for that same reason. Again, just an opinion.

Canada
Israel
UK
France
India
Turkey
Australia
Japan
South Korea
Ireland
Saudi Arabia
Germany

Pretty much most Strategic Allies have all called Biden to offer congratulations.

Russia, China, North Korea have not.  No surprising as I am sure they are not happy with a Biden win as they are foes.  And most like having Trump.  Described by some as a "Useful Idiot".

No one, in the International community has congratulated Trump on a the victory his team is saying he won.




I'm trying to stand back from this and watch it unfold without leaning. Probably won't work, but that's where I'm shooting for. Already learned some pretty neat stuff, digging around for legalities and history of the US system.

As a political junkie watching this from afar, I find the whole thing horrifyingly fascinating.  I have no doubt that entire university programs will be created for this.  Decades of studies and historical perspectives for sure.

Sorry if I didn't respond as I was busy with Nov 11th stuff and felt like staying away from this topic on that day.

My answers above.

Cheers. 
 

Remius

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Voter fraud myths debunked.    https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-54811410


And news is breaking that a post audit election review in Arizona is showing no evidence of voter fraud.  Expect this from everywhere else.
 

OceanBonfire

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So far, no lawyers has provided any evidence to prove there was fraud:

Few legal wins so far as Trump team hunts for proof of fraud

During a Pennsylvania court hearing this week on one of the many election lawsuits brought by President Donald Trump, a judge asked a campaign lawyer whether he had found any signs of fraud from among the 592 ballots challenged.

The answer was no.

...

In Michigan, Judge Cynthia Stephens dismissed one filing as “inadmissible hearsay within hearsay.” When Trump’s lawyers appealed, the next court kicked the filing back as “defective.”

The campaign has scored just one small victory, allowing their observers to stand a little closer to election workers processing the mail-in ballots in Philadelphia. But the litigation keeps coming, usually centered on accusations from partisan poll watchers, who have no auditing role in the election, that something untoward may have happened, without evidence to back it up.

...


https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/america-votes/few-legal-wins-so-far-as-trump-team-hunts-for-proof-of-fraud-1.5184862

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-donald-trump-campaigns-pennsylvania-lawsuits-b56e0555a2bea650b12f53b979ea7493

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/america-votes/fact-check-trump-uses-out-of-context-video-to-spread-false-information-about-mail-in-voting-1.5185925
 

mariomike

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Remius said:
I find the whole thing horrifyingly fascinating.

I will find him incredibly boring, when he no longer has nukes.  Same as when he was a game show host.
 

Ralph

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4.  People in the DOJ, FBI, CIA, have all done some pretty discreditable things the last 5 years, are we to really believe the elections would be scandal free;
People in the White House/Trump campaign/GOP have all done some pretty discreditable things the last 5 years, are we to really believe the elections would be scandal free;
5.  The pollsters and media so obviously skewed polls ahead of the election, showing a blue wave pending;
So there wasn't a blue wave and that shows that the Democrats stole the election? Because they did WORSE than "the media" (all one deep state group?) guessed they would?
6.  After the election, the media leapt prematurely to declare a Biden victory;
Trump himself declared victory before all votes were counted in both 2016 and 2020.
7.  Allegations of prominent Democrats owning large shares of the company Dominion;
Wrong. https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-us-news-media-michigan-43bdaa186e3b8d9d897cae3bd0c6cdc0
8.  "Glitches" all swing to Biden;
Show evidence that ALL glitches (which is to say honest errors which have been caught and remedied) swing to Biden.
9.  Dead people all vote for Biden;
Here's some examples of dead people voting Republican https://www.factcheck.org/2020/11/thin-allegations-of-dead-people-voting/
10.  If Trump is a nazi, as the left/media has stated endlessly, it would be a noble thing for any Democrat to do anything to stop "Hitler", so election fraud isn't a stretch;
Where is the evidence of MSM outlets calling him a Nazi in a news article? Not an opinion piece from a politician or member of the public, who are offering their personal thoughts - I mean the editorial branch of the media. Shall we list all the mean things Trump has called people? Would that not spur his disciples onto doing his bidding by any means necessary?
There is a lot to look at.  If this is true, what a disaster.  If this is true, the fourth estate is the worst offender in all of this.
No, the worst offender would be the group faking all the presidential votes for Biden and leaving all the Republican victories in the House and Senate. My best guess is Antifa, a made-up organization operating within American borders that somehow has not been brought to justice, even though it's considered a terror group and should have the full might of the DOJ/ATF/FBI on its tail? I guess everyone's in on protecting the president of Antifa?
If true, what are the implications for Canada where this system is also used (how the hell did Trudeau win last time after all he'd been connected with)?
What system? Voting?

 

shawn5o

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Remius said:
No, refusing to begin the transition process, accept the results, frivolous lawsuits with no real evidence in only certain areas and weaponizing the DOJ to stall his loss is exactly that.

The fact that even Fox refuses to listen to their claims should be a good indication.

How many world leaders have called to congratulate him?  Any?

Right.

"People should know when they're beaten."
Quintus.  Gladiator.

Hi Remius

Fox news is no longer Murdoch(sp?) Sr baby. His sons run it now and they are dem supporters. (One of the son's wife apparently exclaimed "we won" after Biden was named President Elect by the msn.)
 

shawn5o

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QV said:
We know election fraud can be committed.  But is it possible election fraud can be committed that could change the outcome? 

I'm not asking about how it occurred, or to what detail.  I am just asking if it's possible.

Hi QV

Here's a link about the votes for Biden - statistically impossible

https://tinyurl.com/y37u47gl

Cheers

Shawn
 

mariomike

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shawn5o said:
https://tinyurl.com/y37u47gl

What is "Monster Hunter Nation"?

shawn5o said:
Fox news is no longer Murdoch(sp?) Sr baby.

Looks like OANN is Trump's new BFF.
https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk03fBaoNFuai9hPzuQY_I0U-EXAUKA%3A1605225095539&ei=h8qtX6S4IK2x5NoPq7aiqAc&q=trump+oann&oq=trump+oann&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQAzoECCMQJzoECC4QJzoKCAAQsQMQgwEQQzoOCC4QsQMQgwEQxwEQowI6CAgAELEDEIMBOgsILhCxAxDHARCjAjoHCC4QJxCTAjoECAAQQzoCCAA6AgguOgsIABCxAxCDARCRAjoFCC4QsQM6CgguEMkDECcQkwI6DggAELEDEIMBEMkDEJECOgsIABCxAxCDARDJAzoFCAAQsQM6DQgAELEDEIMBEMkDEAo6BwgAELEDEAo6BAgAEAo6CggAELEDEIMBEApQ89sFWL34BWDV_AVoAHABeACAAZ4CiAGsC5IBBTAuOS4xmAEAoAEBqgEHZ3dzLXdpesABAQ&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwjkl-q8mf7sAhWtGFkFHSubCHUQ4dUDCAw&uact=5#spf=1605225194658
 

Remius

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He’s fantasy fiction writer.  Really. And he has a blog. But his published works involve werewolves and other fantasies.
 

Remius

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This is just breaking from the DHS.  https://local12.com/news/beyond-the-podium/dhs-agency-nov-3-election-was-most-secure-in-american-history

I%u2019m sure a Twitter storm from the outgoing president will follow.
 

shawn5o

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Remius said:
He’s fantasy fiction writer.  Really. And he has a blog. But his published works involve werewolves and other fantasies.

Hi Remius

And there is more - After returning home from his mission, he got married before graduating with an accounting degree. After working as an accountant for several years, Correia opened a gun store with business partners while continuing work as an accountant. He also started working as a firearms instructor and a CCW instructor.[2] In 2013 he began working as a writer full-time.[1]
(wikipedia)
 

Ralph

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shawn5o said:
Hi Remius

Fox news is no longer Murdoch(sp?) Sr baby. His sons run it now and they are dem supporters. (One of the son's wife apparently exclaimed "we won" after Biden was named President Elect by the msn.)

No. Rupert is still the executive chairman and the one somewhat left-leaning son quit earlier this year. Maybe it was his wife you overheard?

https://www.npr.org/2020/07/31/897929181/james-murdoch-quits-family-media-empire-after-disagreements
 

shawn5o

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Ralph said:
No. Rupert is still the executive chairman and the one somewhat left-leaning son quit earlier this year. Maybe it was his wife you overheard?

https://www.npr.org/2020/07/31/897929181/james-murdoch-quits-family-media-empire-after-disagreements

Hi Ralph

Thanks for pointing that out. I can't remember where I got that tidbit about the mrs - I'll look back for it.

Cheers

Shawn
 

Navy_Pete

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shawn5o said:
Hi QV

Here's a link about the votes for Biden - statistically impossible

https://tinyurl.com/y37u47gl

Cheers

Shawn

Ah wow, that's a really clever bit of rhetoric that I wish I had thought of. Nothing undermines someone's argument than 'supporting' it with the insane blog rantings of an unhinged survivalist on the internet.  Well played.  :Tin-Foil-Hat:
 

Remius

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Navy_Pete said:
Ah wow, that's a really clever bit of rhetoric that I wish I had thought of. Nothing undermines someone's argument than 'supporting' it with the insane blog rantings of an unhinged survivalist on the internet.  Well played.  :Tin-Foil-Hat:

But apparently he’s a married accountant with a gun store.  So there’s that...
 

Blackadder1916

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Remius said:
This is just breaking from the DHS.  https://local12.com/news/beyond-the-podium/dhs-agency-nov-3-election-was-most-secure-in-american-history

I%u2019m sure a Twitter storm from the outgoing president will follow.

The statement on the government site . . . wonder if it will last long . . .  as well as those federal appointees who very publicly put there names to it.


https://www.cisa.gov/news/2020/11/12/joint-statement-elections-infrastructure-government-coordinating-council-election

JOINT STATEMENT FROM ELECTIONS INFRASTRUCTURE GOVERNMENT COORDINATING COUNCIL & THE ELECTION INFRASTRUCTURE SECTOR COORDINATING EXECUTIVE COMMITTEES
Original release date: November 12, 2020

WASHINGTON – The members of Election Infrastructure Government Coordinating Council (GCC) Executive Committee – Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) Assistant Director Bob Kolasky, U.S. Election Assistance Commission Chair Benjamin Hovland, National Association of Secretaries of State (NASS) President Maggie Toulouse Oliver, National Association of State Election Directors (NASED) President Lori Augino, and Escambia County (Florida) Supervisor of Elections David Stafford – and the members of the Election Infrastructure Sector Coordinating Council (SCC) – Chair Brian Hancock (Unisyn Voting Solutions), Vice Chair Sam Derheimer (Hart InterCivic), Chris Wlaschin (Election Systems & Software), Ericka Haas (Electronic Registration Information Center), and Maria Bianchi (Democracy Works) - released the following statement:

“The November 3rd election was the most secure in American history. Right now, across the country, election officials are reviewing and double checking the entire election process prior to finalizing the result.

“When states have close elections, many will recount ballots. All of the states with close results in the 2020 presidential race have paper records of each vote, allowing the ability to go back and count each ballot if necessary. This is an added benefit for security and resilience. This process allows for the identification and correction of any mistakes or errors. There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised.

“Other security measures like pre-election testing, state certification of voting equipment, and the U.S. Election Assistance Commission’s (EAC) certification of voting equipment help to build additional confidence in the voting systems used in 2020.

“While we know there are many unfounded claims and opportunities for misinformation about the process of our elections, we can assure you we have the utmost confidence in the security and integrity of our elections, and you should too. When you have questions, turn to elections officials as trusted voices as they administer elections.”


https://www.eac.gov/about_the_eac/commissioners.aspx
. . . Benjamin Hovland and Donald Palmer were sworn in on February 4, 2019 as EAC commissioners following their nomination by President Donald Trump and unanimous confirmation by the U.S. Senate.
 

boot12

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Sincere question: What is the purpose of this thread? Or to put it another way, what is the value it brings to this website?

While I have tried to steer clear of this thread for the most part, like other infrequent posters I have been occasionally seduced into participating. Political discussion is all well and good, but are we really achieving anything if the most frequent posters in here cannot agree on basic facts due to the way they are distorted by the hyper-partisan U.S. system?

While I've occasionally gained insight or a different perspective from a few lengthy, well thought out posts in this or related topics, they are needles in the haystack and the significant minority.

Is this thread simply 50 pages of manually pairing mainstream media articles with the fringe blog posts that discuss the same topics? If so I'm sure there are algorithms out there that can do the same thing more efficiently.

Would we as a community be in a significantly different spot today if we had instead just spent the last 50 pages arguing as to where the top of this staircase is?

Impossible_staircase.svg


:2c:
 

brihard

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boot12 said:
Would we as a community be in a significantly different spot today if we had instead just spent the last 50 pages arguing as to where the top of this staircase is?

Impossible_staircase.svg


:2c:

That would also likely turn into an argument based on 'left' versus 'right'.
 

Good2Golf

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shawn5o said:
Hi Remius

Fox news is no longer Murdoch(sp?) Sr baby. His sons run it now and they are dem supporters. (One of the son's wife apparently exclaimed "we won" after Biden was named President Elect by the msn.)

So 100% of the MSM is now ‘fake news’?
 
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