The Decline of the Liberal Party- Swerved Into a Confederation Topic

[Kat Stevens]

As long as we want too retain a Westminster type of Parliamentary Democracy where people are represented in defined constituencies on a roughly equitable "rep by pop" basis then ON and QC will "dominate the country politically," because:

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Huh, I never realized it before, but apparently The Hunger Games was a documentary.

 

[Halifax Tar]

What you seem to be describing is an elected and effective Senate.

Perhaps.

So if we divide Ont and Que into 7 more little provinces you're satisfied?

Thats not what I said. All I am saying is redistributing the seats in the HOC. All provinces maintain their current existence. I'm simply using geography.

84 Seats Atlantic Region:
NFLD
PEI
NB
NS

*86 Seats Central Region:
Ont
Que

84 Seats Prairie/Pacific Region:
Man
Sask
AB
BC

84 Seats Norther Region:
Yuk
NWT
Nun

*I'm giving the decimal points to Central for population. And this should be reviewed every electoral cycle.

The regions have no office or individual representation they are just dividing lines on a map.

Those 84/86 seats are divided withing the individual regions.

Just add a popular vote % factor to the current system and let parties assign what they get as they see fit or as equally as possible between regions.

Not a bad idea. Sort of Proportional Representation ?

Almost half the population lives in Ontario. Do you expect them to be represented by the same amount of votes as PEI? PEI has a population of 170,688. Ontario has a population of 15,007,816. How do you ensure fair representation if both PEI and Ontario have, say, six votes each?

See above post. This empowers all regions.

As long as we want too retain a Westminster type of Parliamentary Democracy where people are represented in defined constituencies on a roughly equitable "rep by pop" basis then ON and QC will "dominate the country politically," because:

View attachment 74539View attachment 74540

Maybe its time to change or mod what we have ? Remember "This will be the last FPTP election" ?

But Ontario and Quebec dont vote the same representation in

See above post. This empowers all regions.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Northern half of BC includes an all year, deep water port, from which to ship all our nasty natural resources that you folks don't need or want as long as that stalwart of human rights and environmental concern that is the Most Noble House of Saud keeps selling it to you. Fine, we'll keep our ten miles, makes it easier to drive to Vegas to spend all our filthy oil money. And wheat money. And Canola money. And potash money. And...

Why do you keep saying "you folks"?
I want your energy, I want your canola, I want your potash.

Your anger is so misdirected its criminal. You're talking about a populace who think we should only get meat from a store so we can stop killing animals for it.

Tell the Prarie govts to do some media work instead of just getting elected at home by feeding your anger.

 

[suffolkowner]

Perhaps.



Thats not what I said. All I am saying is redistributing the seats in the HOC. All provinces maintain their current existence. I'm simply using geography.

84 Seats Atlantic Region:
NFLD
PEI
NB
NS

*86 Seats Central Region:
Ont
Que

84 Seats Prairie/Pacific Region:
Man
Sask
AB
BC

84 Seats Norther Region:
Yuk
NWT
Nun

*I'm giving the decimal points to Central for population. And this should be reviewed every electoral cycle.

The regions have no office or individual representation they are just dividing lines on a map.

Those 84/86 seats are divided withing the individual regions.



Not a bad idea. Sort of Proportional Representation ?



See above post. This empowers all regions.



Maybe its time to change or mod what we have ? Remember "This will be the last FPTP election" ?



See above post. This empowers all regions.

It seem like you are just trying to recreate the Senate in the HofC. Rural areas are already over represented in the HofC

 

[Brad Sallows]

Part of the reason Canada is in a pickle is that our big shifts happen when people are in a hurry (1867, 1982) and the results are inevitably inflected by the politics of the moment. Any formulas proposed for reform can't merely work for now; they have to work for all kinds of possible future distributions of people around the country.

A separately elected executive shouldn't be a hard lift, but the universe will either reach maximum entropy or collapse back to a singularity before Canadians could come to agreement on a triple-E senate, given the starting position of a country that contains Ontario and PEI. The fruitful ground for reform mostly lies in redefining the powers the federal government has, not redefining how it is composed. The more the power to interfere is limited, the less the squabble over how it is won matters.

 

[Halifax Tar]

It seem like you are just trying to recreate the Senate in the HofC. Rural areas are already over represented in the HofC

I would argue urban areas are just as over represented. And ridiculously skew national issues in their favor.

So, even things out.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Why do you keep saying "you folks"?
I want your energy, I want your canola, I want your potash.

Your anger is so misdirected its criminal. You're talking about a populace who think we should only get meat from a store so we can stop killing animals for it.

Tell the Prarie govts to do some media work instead of just getting elected at home by feeding your anger.

I guess by "you folks" I mean the apathetic fucks who keep electing a government that has open, virulent contempt for the portion of the country that would gladly keep them warm and fed if they'd only let us. Also, the equally culpable assholes who's only knowledge of the west comes from CBC, CTV and Global, who feed them a steady diet of how awful we all are out here. Criminal?? Gimme a fucking break man...

 

[YZT580]

Rep by population - HoC
Rep by area - Senate

The problem is that the Senate is appointed and doesn’t have credibility in the eyes of many. Hence the cry of “Triple E” Senate to make it relevant.
That would cut into the power of the HoC and therefore will never see the light of day.

and the senate terms are 6 years so they overlap the commons:

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

. Also, the equally culpable assholes who's only knowledge of the west comes from CBC, CTV and Global, who feed them a steady diet of how awful we all are out here.

Thank you for confirming my post...

 

[dapaterson]

I would argue urban areas are just as over represented. And ridiculously skew national issues in their favor.

So, even things out.

How do? Urban areas have population.

Your model gives two thirds of Canadians one quarter of representation.

Indeed, if you look at the population per riding, urban areas are generally under represented in the HoC, with more people in urban ridings than in rural

 

[suffolkowner]

I guess by "you folks" I mean the apathetic fucks who keep electing a government that has open, virulent contempt for the portion of the country that would gladly keep them warm and fed if they'd only let us. Also, the equally culpable assholes who's only knowledge of the west comes from CBC, CTV and Global, who feed them a steady diet of how awful we all are out here. Criminal?? Gimme a fucking break man...

I dont think that this is an accurate reflection of voting intentions in the non west of Canada

 

[Kat Stevens]

Thank you for confirming my post...

Happy to help

 

[suffolkowner]

Rep by population - HoC
Rep by area - Senate

The problem is that the Senate is appointed and doesn’t have credibility in the eyes of many. Hence the cry of “Triple E” Senate to make it relevant.
That would cut into the power of the HoC and therefore will never see the light of day.

I would prefer a more active Senate as well but it is difficult to know how to get there. They have all the power they require but not the moral authority in the eyes of the public or themselves to use it. At present they are a break glass in case of emergency check on the HofC which is ok too

 

[Halifax Tar]

How do? Urban areas have population.

Your model gives two thirds of Canadians one quarter of representation.

Indeed, if you look at the population per riding, urban areas are generally under represented in the HoC, with more people in urban ridings than in rural

As I see it, because we have equated volume of person with priority of issue.

I talking about making things equal. The problems in Corner Brook NFLD or Medicine Hat Alberta are no less important to this country than those in Toronto or Montreal.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Rep by population - HoC
Rep by area - Senate

The problem is that the Senate is appointed and doesn’t have credibility in the eyes of many. Hence the cry of “Triple E” Senate to make it relevant.
That would cut into the power of the HoC and therefore will never see the light of day.

How about:

PRep - HOC
Rep by area (elected on a fix term) - Senate

 

[Remius]

How about:

PRep - HOC
Rep by area (elected on a fix term) - Senate

I would make the senate proportional rep by popular vote by region with term limits. Make it more relevant.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I would make the senate proportional rep by popular vote by region with term limits. Make it more relevant.

That would create some interesting dynamics. I like the cut of your jib.

Make the monkeys fight.

 

[Remius]

That would create some interesting dynamics. I like the cut of your jib.

Make the monkeys fight.

Or compromise. Either way it could bring a bit more balance to the system.

It would not really solve the provincial issues though, things like blocking pipelines and such.

 

[Edward Campbell]

...
Thats not what I said. All I am saying is redistributing the seats in the HOC. All provinces maintain their current existence. I'm simply using geography.

84 Seats Atlantic Region:
NFLD
PEI
NB
NS

*86 Seats Central Region:
Ont
Que

84 Seats Prairie/Pacific Region:
Man
Sask
AB
BC

84 Seats Norther Region:
Yuk
NWT
Nun
...

So, all notions of equality - you know that principle we've been fighting for for about 1,000 years - are to be tossed on the rubbish heap of history because people don't want to live in Atlantic Canada, is that right?

People in Nunavut should get enormous political power because they live in a vast, frozen wasteland and the 35% of the people who produce 40% of Canada's wealth get about 15% of the political representation ... does that sound fair to you?

I think someone else said it - you're proposing that we make the Senate the model for the House of Commons.

I understand - I was raised in the West - that a lot of people are upset by the notion of representation by population, by the notion of equality. Maybe, while we're at it, we should take the right to vote away from women and indigenous people and those who don't pay property taxes. Yeah, 1264 was a really great year.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Thank you for confirming my post...

Allow me to get to the meat of the topic this devolved into. Western anger and alienation. If ANY of you have lived out here and made your living in an industry that our (lol) government has done all but declare outright war on, ie oil and gas, and now going after the farmers too, and don't understand the very real anger, I can't help you. A four year posting to Edmonton, Dundurn, or god help me, Comox, with a rock solid guaranteed income in your pocket doesn't equip you to get it. I understand why all those people think it's just whining, having never lived it. Sucks to be a westerner, I guess. Maybe the best thing is to split the sheets so we can start calling Winnipeg "back east". We really aren't feeling like part of the family out here.