ROTP after High School Questions

[ACEC]

I remember having the same question about recruiting (from an applicants perspective) and I heard about a standards change with regards to vision for aircrew trades.  This is one of the discussions on the topic.

This is a quote from an army.ca forum (sorry, I'm not quite familitar with how to insert a link) its att: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/64089.0.html

News Release
New Vision Standards for CF Aircrew Candidates
Air Force / Force aérienne - NR 07.004 - July 25, 2007

OTTAWA – Canada’s Air Force has recently approved updated vision standards for aircrew candidates.

Under the new standards, applicants who wear glasses or contact lenses to provide modest correction to their vision are now eligible for consideration, whereas previously, applicants required uncorrected vision. The decision to adjust the minimum vision standard is based on the findings of a scientific review by a third party contractor with oversight from Defence Research and Development Canada (DRDC).

“The updated standards are based on scientific measurements that more accurately reflect the reality of operator requirements,” said Chief of Air Staff Medical Advisor, Captain (Navy) Cyd Courchesne. “This is good news for the Canadian Forces as well as for many aircrew candidates, who in the past did not quite meet the previous vision standards.”

The previous standards were based on a Second World War-era policy that uncorrected vision was necessary to fly combat aircraft, however, this policy was not substantiated by scientific research. It was decided that the vision standard for aircrew candidates should be based on modern scientific testing in order to be as fair and as inclusive as possible to all those desiring to become Canadian Forces aircrew.

Within the aircrew occupations, the new vision standards have the most impact for prospective pilots. There will be no change in the expected flying performance of pilots because of the adjusted standards.

Applicants who have had corrective (laser) eye surgery are not eligible for entry into the pilot occupation.

The Canadian Forces has not had any difficulty attracting pilot applicants in the past several years. In the future, the new vision standard will result in a larger pool of applicants and a more competitive selection process.

-30-

For further information, please contact:

Lieutenant Paul Finnemore
Air Force Public Affairs
613-944-5841

 

[Radius]

With your daughters extracurriculars and grade average, I'm confident she should be quite competitive. I was offered a position in land engineering at RMC for this fall, and I have the same grades, though not nearly as many extracurriculars. However, pilot naturally is more competitive.
Also, she should apply in the fall of her gr. 12 year, and the sooner in the fall the better. I didn't get my papers in untill mid November which was abit tight, thought I was fortunate enough for my application to move quickly, for I still needed to complete the aptitude test, medical, and interview. Pilot will also need the aircrew selection to be completed.
Civilian is an open option as well. Considering both options is wise of course. In my opinion, I don't think I would want to pass up the unique experience of RMC.
Hope this helps.

 

[chris_log]

Tell her to keep her options open and is aware of the benefits/disadvantages of each other (i.e. she may get offered civvie-u and not RMC, which means she would have to decide if she wanted to take the offer or wait until the next year to apply again). Also, have her apply at civvie schools anyways, just in case.

Also, I would suggest that she enroll in the reserves as soon as she can. It gives her a heads up to military life and will give her a head start over people straight off the street when she arrives at RMC. It is also a great PT job and (this is the real bonus) will entitle her to a far higher salary then that of an OCdt (for example, I get Pte pay now which is over double the standard OCdt salary).

I believe you mentioned she was in cadets, so enrolling in the reserves won't be a time issue (replace cadet nights with parade nights) and IMHO will be more advantageous in the long run then sticking with cadets though to grade 12.

 

[benny88]

Also, I would suggest that she enroll in the reserves as soon as she can. It gives her a heads up to military life and will give her a head start over people straight off the street when she arrives at RMC. It is also a great PT job and (this is the real bonus) will entitle her to a far higher salary then that of an OCdt (for example, I get Pte pay now which is over double the standard OCdt salary).

Aha! Something I forgot to mention and something anyone considering joining ROTP should think about very carefully. If I could do it all over again I would have joined the reserves for a while before enrolling in ROTP. The experience will help you on BMOQ, and the pay difference is pretty hefty. This system was probably put in place to protect people with more TI when OT'ing and the like (I imagine fewer people would OT from an established trade and income if they had to take OCdt pay for a couple years while they were trained), rather than a reserve PTE with 1 year joining ROTP, but hey, take advantage of the system, I wish I had.

 

[westcoastboy]

Piper
What is the Pay difference after Tax between a newby ROTP Officer Cadet and a 1-2 yr Reservist ??

 

[benny88]

Piper
What is the Pay difference after Tax between a newby ROTP Officer Cadet and a 1-2 yr Reservist ??

PM inbound re: pay for an ROTP member with no previous experience in case Piper doesn't know the exact numbers. He or someone else can advise you on pay for someone with previous TI.

 

[Amspence]

To all that have replied to this post so far … Thank you.  My Daughters final choice will be one that is well thought out I am sure.
She will be on this site soon and for the next couple of years …
Great site!!!

 

[chris_log]

PM inbound re: pay for an ROTP member with no previous experience in case Piper doesn't know the exact numbers. He or someone else can advise you on pay for someone with previous TI.

PM sent as well, as further to the above...it all depends on the rank you left the 'Mo at.

 

[tyciol]

I doubt it is something held against you if time is used well. High school is a great resources so take advantage of it while you can, because you can't once you're older.

 

[tyciol]

This sounds like just the sort of applicant who could get in early.

 

[BravoKilo]

Hello. I am currently looking at planning to go into the ROTP program for Aerospace Control Officer. I have many factors I am worried about with my application into the ROTP, and this mainly has to do with academic history.

It took me six years to finally get out of highschool. At the earlier point in my life I didn't exactly know what I wanted to do with it, nor even really cared. I had the wrong attitude toward school at this point, and didn't really view it as important at that point in time. I did the bare minimum and was apathetic to the mark I got; whether it be just passng or a high eighties mark. They were all over the board, however it didn't really matter to me what I got.

My grade 12 year I just really didn't attend school, working jobs to gain money or just relaxing. This ranged from flipping burgers, to writing editorials for websites and other publications, back to a night shift stock position. I didn't really care what I did, I just ended up doing it. Very stupid move on my part.

In fifth year I actually went back and got all my credits to graduate, I simply had my diploma. I could go out into the world and just get some random job, but I soon realized thats not exactly what I wanted. As a child, I always wanted to be a teacher and I guess I had a minor epiphany on the matter. My old highschool wouldn't take me back, for obvious reasons, so I went to another. I talked with the administration, told them about my goals, and they were reluctant to take me. However, I gave them my reassurances I would do well.

I applied myself to my academics with a semi-full course load, and two night schools each semester. I started to become somewhat of a leading figure in the school, attempting to motivate the other students in the the classes, on the news paper, and offer my assistance whenever I could. I even spearheaded a mildly successful charity program which raised a small amount of money. At the end of this school year, I went from pretty much being a failure to being accepted into every University I applied to, going as far as being accepted into the Concurrent Education programs at Trent, Laurentian, and Brock, as well as acceptances to computer sciences programs in a few other Universities as well. I had scholarships, and many great offers from schools. My average for my six grade twelve U and M level courses was 92.

What I'm concerned about is I did talk to many recruiters about the ROTP program, always finding out bits and pieces each time I talked to them, however one of them just said that they would be looking at my Grade 10, 11, and 12 marks and I needed to have a great average over all three of them. I think it's understandable why this would worry me, as I didn't really apply myself until my final year, and the rest of my education isn't really a great representation of who I am when I actually apply myself to something.

I guess my question is what sort of factors will help boost me past the unfortunate education, or what sort of factors will I need to improve and how to ensure I can at least stand in with the crowd and have a fair chance... If I have a chance at all. Do you think my marks will immediately exclude me from any chance of getting into ROTP, or do you think they may look at the conditions of my final year and make an assessment based on the sudden and drastic improvement in my commitment to my academics as well as other factors in my life? I honestly don't know.

Thank you all for your time, and thanks to those who take the time to reply.

=======================================

The reason why I am currently not at any of the schools I listed above is due to the CUPE 416 and 79 strike in Toronto which directly affected my income. I was not able to do my summer job due to CUPE's strike, yet I wasn't unionized so I had no chance of getting the lost income back. I left with only 40% of my projected earnings for the summer, and when it came time to pay tuition I merely did not have enough money to pay for it, even after going through OSAP's reassessment and other options available. I looked into the ROTP program as a way to not pay for my education, but also to set myself apart from the rest of my colleagues in my potential field. This would also being a learning and growth experience; to expand as individual and ensure that I will maintain and keep my newly founded academic lifestyle through hard work and determination to serve my country. Once my commitment to the ROTP is over, I may stay on if I really enjoy the work more than I expected, or leave a better individual and begin my career as an educator.

Once again thank you all.

 

[gcclarke]

76.234435%

Or, you know. You could go talk to someone at the recruiting centre who could actually give you a valid answer rather than attempt to get it from random strangers on the internet.

 

[owa]

76.234435%

Or, you know. You could go talk to someone at the recruiting centre who could actually give you a valid answer rather than attempt to get it from random strangers on the internet.

Although I agree that your advice is sound (I too believe his best bet would be to ask someone at a recruitment centre), I also think you could have been a little nicer in displaying this.  If you haven't noticed, this section is for asking questions, and I think that should be encouraged and not discouraged.

 

[PMedMoe]

Although I agree that your advice is sound (I too believe his best bet would be to ask someone at a recruitment centre), I also think you could have been a little nicer in displaying this.  If you haven't noticed, this section is for asking questions, and I think that should be encouraged and not discouraged.

Yes, but asking a question in such a manner ("what are my odds of......") is difficult to reply to.  That's like a high school hockey player asking what their odds are of getting into the NHL.

 

[SeanNewman]

You have one thing going for you and one going against you.

For:  The CF always wants people; and

Against:  If the trade you want is competitive for entrants, your grade average will likely be the only objective measure you go up against your peers with...unless you knock it out of the park at the interview.

However, since every trade changes every year by location, your best bet it the RC.  Also, if they give you an answer you don't like, try a RC a few hours away.

Good luck though, because ROTP is honestly such a good plan that I don't know why the CF even offers it.  It's like the best of all worlds...free education plus money, and you don't have to go through the hard RMC parts.

 

[gcclarke]

Good luck though, because ROTP is honestly such a good plan that I don't know why the CF even offers it.  It's like the best of all worlds...free education plus money, and you don't have to go through the hard RMC parts.

It's cheaper to just pay their tuition and books than it is to run at increased capacity at RMC, or god forbid open another MilCol. Especially since, at the vast majority of universities in this country, a large portion of the operating expenses are paid for by the province.

It's not quite as good of a bargain for the CF as a DEO entrant, but it's not too far behind.

 

[SeanNewman]

I mean for the individual...ROTP is a gold mine.

Yes it's better for the CF to have someone pay their own way first, but here are the pros and cons for the person:

DEO:
Con: Pay your own school, promoted later (Captain at around 27-28, Major at 35-ish, etc).
Pro: Get to have your own summers at a pretty significant time of your life.

ROTP:
Con: No summers.
Pro:  Free school, free money, Captain at 25, Major at 32-33-ish.

You might say it's only a few years difference, but you're also getting four years extra pensionable time.

Plus, those years add up huge over the course of your career.  For example, if you make $60k instead of $55k at 25 years old, and $62k instead of $57k at 26, then promotion would be $90k instead of $80k at 32, etc.

So every year of your life in the CF = at minimum $5k/year more, or well over $100k total, just in pay alone, not even including income during school and not paying tuition.

 

[gcclarke]

Mmmm yes I was moreso responding to the "ROTP is honestly such a good plan that I don't know why the CF even offers it" portion of your comment.

I myself was DEO, and in retrospect kind of wish I had gone ROTP, but then again, the thought of joining the Navy hadn't really crossed my mind until about 3rd year.

 

[SeanNewman]

Ahh, I see.  No, what I meant was that a DEO is giving something of himself to the service.

In comparison, the CF is going head over heals to give to the ROTP officer.  No, the DEO doesn't give a commitment, but if you decide that you're going to stay in regardless, as I mentioned ROTP civie U is a gold mine for the individual.

So in terms of what I meant that I was surprised the CF offered it, it's because if anything I think the CF is asking too little in return.  The DEO pays for their own education, and then ends up further behind the ROTP who gets to a battalion with no student debt and likely money in the bank.

Not passing judgement, nor am I asking ROTPs to feel guilty for what the CF offers.  It just seems too good to be true, like they should almost ask for a life-long commitment or something.

 

[gcclarke]

ROTP is a really really good deal. I wish I had taken advantage of it. And because it is a good deal, it is a very useful tool in the utility belt of our recruiting system. But despite that tool, we're still short on a number of officer trades. Tacking on further obligatory service would due rather counter-productive.

Not to mention the fact that, as a 18 year old fresh out of high school, the concept of signing on for a minimum of 9 years of your life is rather monumental as it is. That's bloody well half their life. Making that decision even harder is hardly the answer to our personnel woes.