Robocall et al issue - Fed 2011 election

[Kalatzi]

This could be one of the best things that ever happened to Canadian Politics.

I say that without a trace of sarcasm.

Though I have my own opinions, I am very interested in what I hope will be a meticulous investigative process.

I caught Uncle Bob giving his opnion  on video.

Hopefully it will inspire more of us to get involved in the democratic process.

 

[Kalatzi]

I may as well clarify the last line.

I hope that this issue generates more interest in the democratic process

 

[Remius]

How can this be the best thing to happen in politics?  If true it is a gross indiscretion and violation of the democratic process.  If anything it is the worst thing that can happen in a democracy.

I get your last line though.  It is unfortujnate that it would take something like this to get people interested but that's the nature of the beast.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Some of the latest on this in case you haven't seen/heard/read (be careful about riding numbers - even one is too many, but I've heard 4 or 5 total numbers over the weekend):

The Conservative Party does not need to look into "robocalls" made during the last federal election any further, Defence Minister Peter MacKay says.

"It's certainly not something our party condones," MacKay said Sunday of the fraudulent calls to voters. "It's inappropriate behaviour to say the least."

But he told CBC News in New Glasgow, N.S., that he believes the calls directing people to wrong or non-existent polling places were isolated incidents ....

CBC.ca, 27 Feb 12

A Conservative parliamentary staffer who worked on the Tory election team in Guelph, Ont., has reportedly left his post amid an Elections Canada investigation into fraudulent "robocalls" sent out during last year's federal campaign.

According to Huffington Post Canada, Michael Sona - assistant to Conservative MP Eve Adams and communications director for Guelph Conservative candidate Marty Burke during last year's federal election campaign - was fired. The CBC and CTV, however, reported that Sona resigned from this position.

Sun Media published a photo of Sona on its website Thursday, and claimed he was being investigated by the party in relation to the calls.

A Postmedia News-Ottawa Citizen investigation revealed this week that Elections Canada has traced fraudulent phone calls made during the federal election to an Edmonton company that worked for the Conservative Party across the country.

Elections Canada launched its investigation after it was inundated with complaints about election day calls in Guelph, Ont., one of 18 ridings across the country where voters were targeted by harassing or deceptive phone messages in an apparent effort to discourage Liberal supporters from voting.

In Guelph, a riding the Conservatives hoped to take from the Liberals, voters received recorded calls pretending to be from Elections Canada, telling them their polling stations had been moved. The calls led to a chaotic scene at one polling station, and likely led some voters to give up on voting.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper and Conservative officials have denied their party was involved with the robocalls.

"Our party has no knowledge of these calls," Harper told reporters on Thursday. "It's not part of our campaign" ....

Postmedia News, 25 Feb 12

The number of ridings that received alleged illegal voter-suppression calls in the last federal election is greater than previously thought, according to opposition MPs.

NDP MP Pat Martin said Sunday that he knows of 34 ridings that received calls advising people that their voting station had changed, and that number is growing every day.

“You can’t overstate how serious that is,” Martin told CTV’s Question Period.

“The most fundamental freedom that we enjoy as citizens in a democracy is the right to vote in a federal election, free and fair and without interference.”

Interim Liberal leader Bob Rae told CTV Sunday that he knows of 27 Liberal ridings that received calls and expects that number to grow by Monday.

“What inevitably happens is that people will look back at what they thought was an isolated incident in their riding and then they begin to understand that it may have been part of some sort of larger pattern,” Rae said.

On Saturday, Rae told reporters that voter suppression tactics, including a pattern of harassing phone calls, were a factor in the Liberal party’s defeat in the May 2 election. “I have no doubt at all that it contributed to the defeat of a number of candidates,” he said.

“I think when you get as many ridings coming forward as we’ve seen now, you can’t just say it’s an isolated incident or an isolated case,” he added ....

Postmedia News, 26 Feb 12

 

[FSTO]

For a group that is supposed to be the master political operators, this is certainly amature hour if these allegations are true.

Very high risk for minimal returns
They used a service with known ties to conservative members (PM and other high ranking western MP's)

I have a feeling that there are other groups involved.

 

[Kalatzi]

"How can this be the best thing to happen in politics?  If true it is a gross indiscretion and violation of the democratic process.  If anything it is the worst thing that can happen in a democracy."

True. It will also likeley generate a useful exercise/debate as to how to best safeguard democracy

 

[PuckChaser]

Yep, it was definitely phone calls and not the Liberal party's complete lack of relevance or direction that made them lose all those seats....

 

[estoguy]

Some of the ridings also didn't involve major Conservative races.

Read an interesting opinion on the weekend suggesting that it was the Liberals behind it, which in a way makes sense.  The Conservatives were firmly in the driver's seat during the election, so something like this as posted above would have been minimal gain for a lot of risk.

Some in the Liberal ranks (namely Uncle Bob) could see it coming and hatched this little scheme.  Since the companies involved had ties to the Conservatives, it would be the perfect way to generate controversy. 

An interesting theory, which may hold more water than it seems.

Just some food for thought...

 

[Kalatzi]

It seems it ws Andrey Coyne at the Post Media group - that broke the sotory. Kudos to them.

A good initial piece in the globe here - http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/john-ibbitson/voter-suppression-scandal-will-be-a-test-of-harpers-leadership/article2350684/

This might blow over fairly quick.

Ibbotsen makes a good point when he menetions that making things difficult for your opponents supporters is NOT Illegal. It is done quyite a bit in the US.

Purporting to be with Elections Canada IS however.

Like him or Loathe him, I tend to the later, PM Harper is one of the sharpest political street fighters thiis country has produced.

I find it  very hard to believe that he would knowingly condone misrepresentaion of Elections Canada by staff.

 

[Old Sweat]

It has been my experience as someone who became politically active after my retirement, that this sort of thing goes on all the time. It also is done by all parties, or at least their workers, the majority of whom are unpaid volunteers. A lot of it is just rumour as well. I guess that enthusiasm trumps morality when politics is concerned.

 

[Rifleman62]

Lets see. When was the last election? May 2011.  Ten months later, in a matter of days there are suddenly all these reports, reports that true to form, are pointing the finger directly at the Conservatives. And of course, it had to be someone very high up that directed this action. Who would that be? It's Mr. Harper. He is a micro manager. He controls everything.

Nixon-est, says Bobby sunshine. What no break in or taping?

Lets play "What will the media say?"

 

[The Bread Guy]

A bit more, from the front end of a call chain (usual caveats re:  single sourcing and anonymous sourcing)....

Staff at a Thunder Bay call centre tasked with making scripted calls claiming to be on behalf of the Conservative Party about voting locations during the 2011 federal election knew they were giving out incorrect information, say former employees.

“We would call these (voters) and they would say ‘we went there and that’s not a real place,’” said a woman, who worked for Responsive Marketing Group Inc. as a call operator, and asked not to be named.

“The whole call centre (noticed it was happening).”

“We called the RCMP,” she said. “We actually also told our supervisor about it.”

But no action was taken and employees were told to stick to the script, the woman said.

There is no confirmation at this point these calls were authorized by the Conservative Party of Canada ....

Postmedia News, 27 Feb 12

 

[Remius]

Yep, it was definitely phone calls and not the Liberal party's complete lack of relevance or direction that made them lose all those seats....

Irrelevant.  Election fraud is election fraud regardless of how the vote would have gone.

 

[Sythen]

May or may not be related, but in the run up to the election, my gf here in Ottawa got at least 3 calls from someone claiming to be a representative on the CPC, and telling her to make sure to vote for a certain candidate (can't remember the names of them right now) but the caller was telling her the Liberal candidate was the Conservative one.. I have no evidence at all aside from what my gf told me at the time, but the caller was very adamant that the Liberal candidate was the Conservative one.. When I heard about this robo-call thing, it reminded me of it. I would definitely like to see a full investigation into this, with no stone unturned.

 

[Remius]

Your GF certainly has the right to file a complaint with Elections Canada.  If she has a valid complaint backed up with evidence (like phone records) hopefully they would investigate.

However this investigation is about more than just dirty tricks.  People were told to go to the wrong polling stations by people pretending to be Election's Canada officials.  I don't care how people vote, but when you impede their right to exercise that vote then there is a serious problem.

 

[Sythen]

Your GF certainly has the right to file a complaint with Elections Canada.  If she has a valid complaint backed up with evidence (like phone records) hopefully they would investigate.

However this investigation is about more than just dirty tricks.  People were told to go to the wrong polling stations by people pretending to be Election's Canada officials.  I don't care how people vote, but when you impede their right to exercise that vote then there is a serious problem.

I doubt she could even remember what day the call happened on.. Just an anecdote I guess.. And I am definitely not disagreeing, nor trying to say, "But the Liberals did this!".. 100% you are correct.

 

[Remius]

And you do bring up a point about all parties playing dirty tricks.  It's not easy to stomach watching the very same people who may have their hands dirty as well acting all offended and self righteous.

I really hope they get to the bottom of this one way or the other.  To be honest I really hope that it was a rogue element.  And not because it gets anyone out of trouble or vindicates the CPC.  Rather that this could happen in Canada and that people would stoop to that level in an organised concerted way.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Further to what Old Sweat said, above, Mike Duffy says that a) all parties factions do it, and b) it's not necessarily the parties, per se, it may be "third parties."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/mike-duffy-points-finger-at-third-parties-amid-election-mischief-furor/article2351305/
Mike Duffy points finger at ‘third parties’ amid election-mischief furor

"Conservative Senator Mike Duffy says “third parties” – and not necessarily any of the political parties – could be behind election “robo-call” scandal ... “People have to remember that it’s not just political parties that are operating during a federal election campaign,” he added. “Under the law, we have all kinds of interested third parties that are operating in election campaigns, and I think that’s where we have to be careful. People are throwing stones but there have been third parties that have been attacking Conservatives as well as Liberals and New Democrats.”"

More on link

 

[Colin Parkinson]

One election day my office phone started ringing constantly. Turns out that Election Canada had published my phone number as the place to call to find out where you should vote, it was to late to correct the mistake, so my assistant and I spent the whole day helping people find their polling station, it was government related work anyways and helping people vote was fun.
I scrutinized last election, while I found the information Elections Canada put out was quite good, the amount of deviations from the process at the 4 locations I was covering was significant. I know in my riding the Liberal and NDP had significant volunteer presence at each poll, so I can’t see them missing any hanky panky at that level.

I agree with most posters here, I don’t see a senior party figure involved in this, the risk is to high for to little return. I also find it odd that it’s taken this long to surface. If someone from any party stepped over the line, then throw the book at them.

 

[Remius]

And, as Mr. Campbell pointed out, if any third parties are involved, they as well should have the book thrown at them.