RFT abolished?

[Gary D. in SK]

I have no intentions of being in Remedial Fitness Training and thus this should not affect me personally, (for those keeping track, I have changed my application from RES to REG), but I thought it interesting and worthy of further discussion in that during my interview my interviewer did mention that RFT was being abolished.

Does anyone have information on this or can confirm it.  It would be for those looking to enroll and searching/reading old threads here to be made aware of this if it is in fact the case.

 

[jp86]

It's been about six months since we saw the CFLRS Week 0 requirements go up.  If they're abolishing RFT/WFT now, I guess it didn't help much.

 

[JBoyd]

I believe that there are a few threads discussing the change of RFT to WFT. From my understanding, there is now a minimum standard to meet to be sent to WFT, if you do not meet it you are RTM'ed. I do not believe the standards have been officially shared on the site, but a recruiter would most likely be the best person to direct any questions to.

 

[stefwills]

Yes, RFT is now WFT. There ARE certain minimums to make WFT now, and if you don't meet them, you go home

 

[Pelorus]

...and I'm sure in another six months or so the standards will change again and they'll be accompanied by a nice new name for something that's essentially the same.

 

[Quartermaster]

OK troops, let's kill the rumour mill.

Firstly, RFT stood for "Recruit Fitness Training" and was changed to "Warrior Fitness Training" to avoid the exact mistake that was made above (reference "remedial") as well as try to engender a sense that the students of that organization are training to become warriors, not recruits.  It does indeed still exist and will continue to do so for the forseeable future. 

The other new item is the Threshold Fitness Test which rolls out as follows:

Candidates under 35 years of age must achieve:

A minimum for 2 push-ups for women, 4 for men; and

A minimum of 2.5 on the VO2 Max for women, 3.5 for men.

If this is not achieved, then they are released from the CF.  These standards are not applied to candidates over 35 years of age.  Separate standards will be developed for those students once there is enough empirical data collected.

To get to a training platoon, Candidates must achieve the minimum acceptable VO2 Max as per the CF Expres standard (4 for women, 6 for men) and pass 2 of the 3 strength tests, with the added standard of the minimum 2 and 4 push ups for women and men respectively.

All candidates who fall between these two standards are referred to WFT and will be transferred to a training platoon when they have developed their fitness to a level where it is expected that they will be successful in passing the CF Expres test under platoon training conditions.  That translates to: a candidate will have to pass the CF Expres test as a member of a training platoon even if they have already done so as a member of the WFT. This is due to the fact that the CF Expres is part of a Performance Objective, not a annual fitness test as it is applied to the rest of the CF once they are trained members.


Hope this helps clear up some confusion.

 

[armyvern]

translates to: a candidate will have to pass the CF Expres test as a member of a training platoon even if they have already done so as a member of the WFT. This is due to the fact that the CF Expres is part of a Performance Objective, not a annual fitness test as it is applied to the rest of the CF once they are trained members.
Hope this helps clear up some confusion.

Well, it leaves me with a wee little question ...

On other courses, it is possible to fail a PO (repeatedly) and not pass it at all as it's "just a PO", but still pass the course. IE: candidates may fail a max of 2 POs, but still pass a course ...

Does that mean that - now that it's "only a PO" - someone on BMQ can actually graduate without ever having successfully "passed" the PO which is the CF Fitness Test?

 

[Gary D. in SK]

Thanks for setting things straight Quartermaster

 

[Quartermaster]

Well, it leaves me with a wee little question ...

On other courses, it is possible to fail a PO (repeatedly) and not pass it at all as it's "just a PO", but still pass the course. IE: candidates may fail a max of 2 POs, but still pass a course ...

Does that mean that - now that it's "only a PO" - someone on BMQ can actually graduate without ever having successfully "passed" the PO which is the CF Fitness Test?

Vern,
I wish I could say "never" but that would be unrealistic.  It would be very rare that this would happen and could only occur under very specific circumstances.  The fact that is is a PO is no change from the past, so overall this policy is a huge improvement IMO.

 

[X-mo-1979]

So Quartermaster what your saying is the min requirement to remain at St.Jean in 4 push ups instead of before it was zero correct?

Hopefully these standards become a norm filling our army with these people,then I can be an elite soldier without ever having to work out!

I'm sorry to the tax payers; paying for these people to make a nice living.I'm honestly ashamed.

 

[chevalnoir]

As "one of those" people, I can't stop myself from answering on this one. I spent some time on RFT after finishing BMQ because I had problems with pushups. I passed every other PO on  my first try, but the pushups continue to be a struggle. I keep working away at 'em. I don't think I will ever be good at them, or that they will ever be effortless for me. You know what - everybody is good at some things, and struggles with others.  That's why the CF focus on working as a team is so effective - we all bring something to the table, and one person's strong points can balance another person's weak areas.

On my Basic platoon, some of the very first people to VR were young, fit, strong guys. You can improve fitness if you work at it, mental toughness and drive is a lot harder to get if it's not there to start with.

I am not here for a meal ticket. I'd quit tomorrow if I thought I had nothing to offer to the CF. But so far, my staff wherever I've been has seemed to feel that I have enough to offer to make it worth their while to help me deal with my strength and fitness issues, so I think I'll continue to trust their judgement and give it 100%.

A huge thank you to the staff, both military and civilian, who make WFT (RFT when I was on it) work. They are some of the finest people I have ever had the priviledge of being around, and I've learned a lot more from them than how to work on fitness. There are a lot of people who have been on RFT you wouldn't be able to pick out of  a crowd by their physical appearance or their fitness level now, but you might notice their work ethic, dedication, and willingness to help anyone out who needs it.

Please don't slag this program  - it works.

 

[PMedMoe]

So Quartermaster what your saying is the min requirement to remain at St.Jean in 4 push ups instead of before it was zero correct?

Hopefully these standards become a norm filling our army with these people,then I can be an elite soldier without ever having to work out!

I'm sorry to the tax payers; paying for these people to make a nice living.I'm honestly ashamed.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  You can take someone who's not in shape and get them there but you can't make stupid smart.  Yes, I think they should be in shape before they get to BMQ, but I'm sure situations occur where someone needs a little help.

 

[Quartermaster]

As "one of those" people, I can't stop myself from answering on this one. I spent some time on RFT after finishing BMQ because I had problems with pushups. I passed every other PO on  my first try, but the pushups continue to be a struggle. I keep working away at 'em. I don't think I will ever be good at them, or that they will ever be effortless for me. You know what - everybody is good at some things, and struggles with others.  That's why the CF focus on working as a team is so effective - we all bring something to the table, and one person's strong points can balance another person's weak areas.

On my Basic platoon, some of the very first people to VR were young, fit, strong guys. You can improve fitness if you work at it, mental toughness and drive is a lot harder to get if it's not there to start with.

I am not here for a meal ticket. I'd quit tomorrow if I thought I had nothing to offer to the CF. But so far, my staff wherever I've been has seemed to feel that I have enough to offer to make it worth their while to help me deal with my strength and fitness issues, so I think I'll continue to trust their judgement and give it 100%.

A huge thank you to the staff, both military and civilian, who make WFT (RFT when I was on it) work. They are some of the finest people I have ever had the priviledge of being around, and I've learned a lot more from them than how to work on fitness. There are a lot of people who have been on RFT you wouldn't be able to pick out of  a crowd by their physical appearance or their fitness level now, but you might notice their work ethic, dedication, and willingness to help anyone out who needs it.

Please don't slag this program  - it works.

Nicely said.

EDIT:  I passed this text along to the commander of the orgainzation that is responsible for WFT.  I hope you don't mind.

 

[JordanB]

They should never get rid of RFT. RFT is the best program that the Canadian Forces has to offer.
After spending my first few weeks in the CF there, I have to agree that most anyone who makes it through RFT is probably in better shape then those who passed their express test first time through.

 

[Pea]

I agree that we should be fit & ready when we enter the CF, just like you need to be ready for most jobs on civi street when you start work there. However, I'll admit I wasn't ready when I showed up for BMQ. I thought I was, but I was obviously mistaken. After a cycle on RFT my fitness was well above where it was required to be, and I'll never allow myself to be unprepared again. I'm very appreciative to the CF for helping me by giving me that swift kick in the ass I needed when it comes to fitness. I'm also very grateful to have had that second chance, as I truly enjoy my career as a Med Tech now.

I've met a lot of good troops who spent time on RFT either before Basic, or at the end of their course when they failed their pushups. I think the CF would truly have lost out if they had given them (us) all the boot due to a few pushups, etc. I have to agree with PMedMoe about the whole "you can't make stupid smart", but you can get someone fit. I'm thankful they felt I was worth spending a few extra dollars on at the time.

 

[mariomike]

I'm thankful they felt I was worth spending a few extra dollars on at the time.

Sounds like the government got a good return on their investment!

 

[aesop081]

RFT is the best program that the Canadian Forces has to offer.

You know that theres is more to the CF than what you see at CFLRS right ?

 

[lpfan55]

I Personally believe RFT was one of the wisest decisions that the CF made. I trained (so I thought) for the Canadian forces before hand. I went to St-Jean full of eagerness to become a soldier. I got to the base and my first week was hell. I couldn't even take my kit up the stairs. I thought that was the toughest week of my life. That Thursday we had our CF Expres, I weighed in at somewhere around 330, 5'11". I first got a 1.5 on the shuttle run, 8 situps, and 1 push up, and 80 lb handgrip (give or take). I was immediately enrolled in Recruit Fitness Training. I was mortified. Our new Staff members gave us the "time to wake up" speech. When it came to things like Forced Marches, Runs, or anything that included any type of cardio, I was dead last, gasping for air. I spent 7 months in RFT training, training training. In the end I was released, unable to still pass the CF Expres. However, my scores this time were infinitely better. 28 situps, 6 or 7 pushups (still working on those ) 4.5 on the shuttle run and 100 or so handgrip. Now I'm not trying to toot my ownhorn here. I'm just saying, I am a perfect example of why this program "do" work (any past RFT-ers?). It is like I read previously in this thread, You can't make stupid smart.

However, the program it's self, instills all of the military qualities instilled by course staff in CFLRS. The WFT staff are the best group of individuals you could ever have the honour of working with. They are there when you need it, and they know when you need the help.

If anyone has any questions they want to ask me, I'm very open to talking about this.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I Personally believe RFT was one of the wisest decisions that the CF made. I trained (so I thought) for the Canadian forces before hand. I went to St-Jean full of eagerness to become a soldier. I got to the base and my first week was hell. I couldn't even take my kit up the stairs. I thought that was the toughest week of my life. That Thursday we had our CF Expres, I weighed in at somewhere around 330, 5'11". I first got a 1.5 on the shuttle run, 8 situps, and 1 push up, and 80 lb handgrip (give or take). I was immediately enrolled in Recruit Fitness Training. I was mortified. Our new Staff members gave us the "time to wake up" speech. When it came to things like Forced Marches, Runs, or anything that included any type of cardio, I was dead last, gasping for air. I spent 7 months in RFT training, training training. In the end I was released, unable to still pass the CF Expres. However, my scores this time were infinitely better. 28 situps, 6 or 7 pushups (still working on those ) 4.5 on the shuttle run and 100 or so handgrip. Now I'm not trying to toot my ownhorn here. I'm just saying, I am a perfect example of why this program "do" work (any past RFT-ers?). It is like I read previously in this thread, You can't make stupid smart.

However, the program it's self, instills all of the military qualities instilled by course staff in CFLRS. The WFT staff are the best group of individuals you could ever have the honour of working with. They are there when you need it, and they know when you need the help.

If anyone has any questions they want to ask me, I'm very open to talking about this.

After reading your post, I can't help but look for the indication that this program worked for the CF.  Sure, you increased your PT level (to a level STILL well below the MINIMUM pass for the EXPRES test, which is low in itself IMO) but, after being released after 7 MONTHS on RFT, how in the h-e-double hockey sticks are you an example of RFT being a good plan for CFRLS and/or the CF??

Not to sound like a personal attack, but your story is one, to me, that shows the elimination of PT testing PRIOR to being enrolled was an unwise decision and that RFT did not (in your case) produce the desired results.

In any event, I guess to say something positive here, I am glad you stuck it out for that long.  Atleast you didn't quit.

 

[blacktriangle]

I know a few people that went through RFT, and most of them are still fat as anything...

Obviously it is different for everyone, but I think that while these people may improve fitness to start with, they lose it once they hit their first posting as they revert to a lazy way of life.

I joined at 16 years old and spent nearly a year before that busting my ass to get into shape. I doubled the standards. Put six months of effort in and maybe you guys reading this, thinking of joining, can at least MEET the "standard"...