Phoenix Pay System - Shit's Horrible

[dapaterson]

Given that I have printed the same pay statement out twice, ten days apart, and seen radically different numbers, I question IBM's claim that the technical solution is not part of the problem.

 

[TQMS]

And here we go...

"Quebec judge authorizes lawsuit against federal government over Phoenix pay system
Between 40,000 and 70,000 people could be eligible to join the lawsuit"

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/quebec-judge-phoenix-lawsuit-1.4635310

 

[Colin Parkinson]

As long as it also names the senior management

 

[dapaterson]

In the "quelle surprise!" department, the GoC won't know if it properly paid out PSAC members in the last contract (due date was November 2017) until the middle of 2019.

Public Service Alliance of Canada (PSAC) President Robyn Benson said the union was advised that the federal government won’t know whether more than 75,200 public servants covered by its largest contract have even been paid properly before June 30, 2019.

https://ipolitics.ca/2018/04/27/government-cant-confirm-raises-and-back-pay-owed-to-thousands-of-workers-until-2019/

 

[daftandbarmy]

In the "quelle surprise!" department, the GoC won't know if it properly paid out PSAC members in the last contract (due date was November 2017) until the middle of 2019.

Public Service Alliance of Canada (PSAC) President Robyn Benson said the union was advised that the federal government won’t know whether more than 75,200 public servants covered by its largest contract have even been paid properly before June 30, 2019.

https://ipolitics.ca/2018/04/27/government-cant-confirm-raises-and-back-pay-owed-to-thousands-of-workers-until-2019/

You'd make history of you ever managed to have Phoenix awarded an Ig-Noble prize: https://www.computerworld.com/article/2533563/it-project-management/it-s-biggest-project-failures----and-what-we-can-learn-from-them.html

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Phoenix is going to have a big impact on fleet personal retention and advancement, 100% of the personal are affected, why would anyone join up at this point? Speaking a to a friend who is a senior officer, there is a huge experience gap between the generation of senior officers retiring with 30 years and new up and coming officers with only 5 years post college to replace them. 

 

[FJAG]

Ryerson: Fixing Phoenix means fixing management too
BOB RYERSON Updated: September 21, 2018

The government says it will start testing prototypes of replacements for the Phoenix pay system very soon. But have the essential lessons been learned?

Phoenix is simply the biggest and most obvious example of a wider management and leadership malaise that has been growing for decades within the federal public service.

When I began my career as a scientist in government in 1973, my director general, Dr. Larry Morley, was a leading scientist in his own right, as was the deputy director general, Lee Godby. Future leaders, including those from minority groups, were grown within the organization from among scientists and engineers either in the organization, or in the field, who had an interest in management. These potential managers were given the opportunity to acquire the “generalist” skills a manager needed.

When I later worked on secondment at Statistics Canada, the head of the research division was a statistician, Dr. Ivan Fellegi. He asked good, tough and fair questions when I proposed a new program and he could do this because he knew the business of his organization. He went on to lead Statistics Canada for some 23 years. Why was Statistics Canada run so well for so many years? The people who ran it knew their business.

So what has happened? Some years ago, General Electric was espousing a new management paradigm built on the premise that “a good manager can manage anything.” That, however, only worked for as long as there were managers in the system who understood their business too.

The GE concept was adopted in the public service – the Career Assignment Program was one of the first manifestations – and potential managers were placed in a variety of assignments over time to learn how to be “executives.” Certainly, a manager who is an expert in finance can manage a finance activity in any number of departments; the same might be said about other generic activities that are similar across departments. However, the concept falls down where fine nuances of technology or other areas must be understood. Here, knowledge-based leadership is required.

In industry, the concept of the generalist manager has been widely debunked, including within GE, as recently documented in Bloomberg Business. Over a 16-year period, GE was the worst performer in the Dow Jones industrial average. Since November 2016, the Dow has risen 41 per cent and GE has lost 46 per cent of its value. So much for the GE concept that “a good manager can manage anything.”

Quite simply, a good manager cannot manage anything. How can someone who does not understand the core principles of IT be expected to run an IT shop? A leader must have at least some inkling of what is important: What you don’t know can hurt you.

Then there is the churning of staff at the executive level. Few directors general or assistant deputy ministers are around when the results of their latest management “improvements” come home to roost.

Finally, there is the apparent desire of most directors to become a director general, and directors general wanting to become assistant deputy ministers. The result is that we have a very knowledgeable work force often poorly managed, and led by people whose knowledge is often inadequate and at worst dangerous.

Those at the senior levels who have benefited from this obviously faulty management paradigm have little incentive to change it. The result is a focus on process and short-term results, lack of leadership and poorer management than the people of Canada are paying for ­­– or than the thousands of competent and caring public servants deserve. The Phoenix fiasco is simply the most visible result.

Bob Ryerson holds a PhD from the University of Waterloo. He was an award-winning scientist and later Director General at the Canada Centre for Remote Sensing. He has served as President and Vice-President of several companies.

See article here:

https://lfpress.com/opinion/columnists/ryerson-fixing-phoenix-means-fixing-management-too/wcm/7dd8a173-d755-4250-b188-753cffc321cb

:cheers:

 

[dapaterson]

Hmm... an internal job posting for the public service has gone up, looking for an ADM at PSPC.


Among the qualifications that are desirable:

EXPERIENCE:

AE1: Experience in administering pay.

AE2: Recent(1) experience in leading large-scale renewal and change management initiatives in a large complex organization.

AE3: Experience in managing transformation and/or delivery of IT-enabled projects.

AE4: Experience in managing horizontal issues of a sensitive nature requiring a high degree of coordination and collaboration.

AE5: Significant(2) experience in consulting, negotiating, collaborating and working on horizontal issues with central agencies and other federal departments or agencies.

Definitions:
(1) Recent is defined as experience normally acquired within the last five (5) years.
(2) Significant experience is understood to mean the depth and breadth of the experience normally associated with having performed a broad range of various, complex related activities at the executive level over a period of two (2) years.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

That job posting is pretty much wrote for you!

 

[daftandbarmy]

Hmm... an internal job posting for the public service has gone up, looking for an ADM at PSPC.


Among the qualifications that are desirable:

EXPERIENCE:

AE1: Experience in administering pay.

AE2: Recent(1) experience in leading large-scale renewal and change management initiatives in a large complex organization.

AE3: Experience in managing transformation and/or delivery of IT-enabled projects.

AE4: Experience in managing horizontal issues of a sensitive nature requiring a high degree of coordination and collaboration.

AE5: Significant(2) experience in consulting, negotiating, collaborating and working on horizontal issues with central agencies and other federal departments or agencies.

Definitions:
(1) Recent is defined as experience normally acquired within the last five (5) years.
(2) Significant experience is understood to mean the depth and breadth of the experience normally associated with having performed a broad range of various, complex related activities at the executive level over a period of two (2) years.

How about being a 'victim' of all those things, does that count?

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Phoenix 'pay pods' show some success, but still no word on overall fix

 

[SupersonicMax]

Almost 3 years later and still no resolution in sight...

 

[FJAG]

I spent three years of my life working on a major information management system for JAG which involved working hand in hand with IM Group where the wheels ground slowly and deliberately.

Considering how simple our system was compared to what SSS (or whatever they are called these days) is trying to accomplish with numerous departments and systems, I'm not the least bit surprised that this thing went off the rails and is taking this long to fix.

Quite frankly I'm amazed that any of you are getting paid at all.

:brickwall:

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Clearing Phoenix pay backlog could take up to 5 years
System's 'overall stability' is predicted to be at least 10 years away

 

[dapaterson]

Problems are sufficiently normalized now that a senior executive was heard to say "Well, being owed $10,000 isn't that much".

 

[daftandbarmy]

Problems are sufficiently normalized now that a senior executive was heard to say "Well, being owed $10,000 isn't that much".

It would be fun to publish a comparison of the Prime Minister's pay statement with that of a 'junior bugler' who is currently being shafted by Phoenix....

Just sayin' 

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Problems are sufficiently normalized now that a senior executive was heard to say "Well, being owed $10,000 isn't that much".

Excellent, then he won't mind contributing that amount from his pay to make up the difference.....

 

[Remius]

It would be fun to publish a comparison of the Prime Minister's pay statement with that of a 'junior bugler' who is currently being shafted by Phoenix....

Just sayin' 

Someone should be in jail over this.

 

[dapaterson]

Well, someone got an award instead of jail time.  Flashback to five years ago, when this was a success...

https://o.canada.com/uncategorized/public-servant-gets-top-award-for-overhaul-of-pay-pension-systems

 

[Good2Golf]

Well, someone got an award instead of jail time.  Flashback to five years ago, when this was a success...

https://o.canada.com/uncategorized/public-servant-gets-top-award-for-overhaul-of-pay-pension-systems

I wonder if the...

When up and running, it is expected to save $80 million a year.

...includes the $1000-1500 million ‘reset’ tomget it to work properly? :