A Canadian Foreign Military Sales Programme

[lenaitch]

Do you guys want help? Or do you just want customers?

I believe the answers would be yes and yes.

 

[Kirkhill]

Well unfortunately you are looking for a world that doesn’t exist.

End User licenses existed Pre-ITAR, so that isn’t a unique or new issue.

Export versions have also existed forever, and there are valid reasons.

I believe that by closing those doors, and denying the Ukrainians in particular, that you are setting yourselves up for a major disruption in the force.

You may want innovation, but only if it is on your terms. The Ukrainians, much like you in WW2, need innovation on any terms. They are motivated to do what they can with what is available. If your weapons are not available then they will do "the other thing". Your WW2 innovations have held the field for 80 years. How long will the next era of innovation last?

The Chinese and the Russians have already decided not to meet you on your preferred field.

 

[KevinB]

I believe that by closing those doors, and denying the Ukrainians in particular, that you are setting yourselves up for a major disruption in the force.

Preaching to the choir brother.

You may want innovation, but only if it is on your terms. The Ukrainians, much like you in WW2, need innovation on any terms. They are motivated to do what they can with what is available. If your weapons are not available then they will do "the other thing". Your WW2 innovations have held the field for 80 years. How long will the next era of innovation last?

You’re mistaking certain aspects, as blanket policy.

The Chinese and the Russians have already decided not to meet you on your preferred field.

And we refuse to see theirs…

 

[Good2Golf]

If I buy more tanks than I need then I want to be able to transfer those tanks to somebody else who needs or wants them.

By “I” do you mean Canada? Because….that dog ain’t ever gonna hunt…

 

[Kirkhill]

By “I” do you mean Canada? Because….that dog ain’t ever gonna hunt…

Perhaps not tanks .... but how about trucks, ambulances and engineering equipment suitable for military use?

How about comms devices? Optics?

And, once the system gets established, perhaps, at some point in the distant future, when international needs, Canadian public and political will coincide, maybe tanks.

 

[Kirkhill]

I realize that I let myself get overheated.

Apologies @KevinB

I have to say that my issues are not with the US. I have spent too much time down there and have made too many friends with too many shared problems.

On the other hand I do have a problem with an entity I am coming to define as the State Department Party. A geopolitical entity with fellow travelers in all Western governments. Authoritarian liberals. A priesthood that aspires to control and not co-operation.

I am a supporter of sovereignty - both personal and national - so I am inclined to seek solutions that assure the greatest freedom of action for both myself and my country. I am not against co-operating. I encourage it. But I am not inclined towards subservience.

PS having met both bureaucrats and jailbirds in the US I have to say that I generally found the jailbirds more honourable.

 

[KevinB]

I realize that I let myself get overheated.

Apologies @KevinB

I have to say that my issues are not with the US. I have spent too much time down there and have made too many friends with too many shared problems.

On the other hand I do have a problem with an entity I am coming to define as the State Department Party. A geopolitical entity with fellow travelers in all Western governments. Authoritarian liberals. A priesthood that aspires to control and not co-operation.

I am a supporter of sovereignty - both personal and national - so I am inclined to seek solutions that assure the greatest freedom of action for both myself and my country. I am not against co-operating. I encourage it. But I am not inclined towards subservience.

PS having met both bureaucrats and jailbirds in the US I have to say that I generally found the jailbirds more honourable.

I didn't take offense.

FWIW the GoC is likely to be much more restrictive on what it donates to others than us in the US, not just because your cupboard is always bare, but also because Canada...

 

[Kirkhill]

I didn't take offense.

FWIW the GoC is likely to be much more restrictive on what it donates to others than us in the US, not just because your cupboard is always bare, but also because Canada...

I won't argue that.

As has been noted Canada has the ability to do much of what I have proposed already. The problem lies where it always lies - with the decision makers.

My aim is to make sure that future decision makers retain those options and can perhaps figure out how to better exploit the advantages they supply.

We really should be doing a better job of supplying Bell 412s if we would rather not get overly warlike and supply LAVs. It's not my fault if somebody wants to repaint a flying ambulance and stick a machine gun in the door.

 

[KevinB]

I won't argue that.

As has been noted Canada has the ability to do much of what I have proposed already. The problem lies where it always lies - with the decision makers.

My aim is to make sure that future decision makers retain those options and can perhaps figure out how to better exploit the advantages they supply.

We really should be doing a better job of supplying Bell 412s if we would rather not get overly warlike and supply LAVs. It's not my fault if somebody wants to repaint a flying ambulance and stick a machine gun in the door.

No real market for the 412 these days, heck you guys even sank the deal in the Philippines for that.
Canada really errored on a number of recent programs down here
1) FLRAA not buying in at the outset, and eventually taking notice just prior to contact award
2) OMFV
Both of those could have had some decent spinoffs for Canada, and end up with a capable system for Canada to replace a missing or severely limited capability.