- Reaction score
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- Points
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Is it unreasonable to expect someone to provide First Aid (Marines are trained) to someone that is unconscious? It’s not about the choke but what you do when you realize someone is in distress.
He placed them in the recovery position. That is the first aid for someone unconscious and breathing. It’s also the position you place someone in if they go unconscious from a choke- as long as they have an airway.Is it unreasonable to expect someone to provide First Aid (Marines are trained) to someone that is unconscious? It’s not about the choke but what you do when you realize someone is in distress.
So, you just choked someone unconscious but don’t check airways?He placed them in the recovery position. That is the first aid for someone unconscious and breathing. It’s also the position you place someone in if they go unconscious from a choke- as long as they have an airway.
Not remembering to check the airway but remembering the 80% solution which is rolling them into the recovery position isn’t as damning as it seems to everyone else here.
The second passenger checks his pulse. The guys defecates. You can hear another guy talking about his army training- saying you have to let go when they do that. It’s a very troubled event. I believe the second person eventually has a Kimura near the end.So, you just choked someone unconscious but don’t check airways?
That’s the point brihard is making. He received training in First Aid but can’t do the basics. If he can’t internalize training for First Aid, then we need to assume he can’t properly internalize other type of training (including MCMAP) to inform his actions.
I need a cause of death- pressure on the neck isn’t enough. I need to know about the injuries specifically to understand better what’s going on.
The “chokehold” on the video is mechanically incorrect. Like complete garbage. Long flat bone of the forearm is across the windpipe. No pressure on the carotid sinus at all.
Crushed windpipe maybe? Pretty hard to recover from...
I've seen this a few times. Disconnect between someone's training and actually doing it for real. Environment might be a factor too? Seen a nurse (she said she was a trauma nurse in an ER) act like an idiot at the scene of a car accident. Everyone was fine but she was in a panic trying to take people's pulse and speaking gibberish.I had to walk everyone through the steps while they stared at the person. Guys who had done first aid a dozen times.
I definitely was not super clear in how far my opinion does and doesn’t go here, sorry. I’ll elucidate on the significance (if any) of him not doing much effective first aid- in my opinion only. I do not have close to the expertise you do and I won’t profess to; I’m just giving an opinion on what we do know and can see. I would never go to this extent about a situation in Canada, for obvious reasons.We’ll have to disagree i guess.
When I did MCMAP in cherrypoint almost twenty years ago there was almost no “post care” or monitoring vitals. Wasn’t what the training was about. There was however a context where you don’t give the position up and maintain it by pressure on and pressure off. I did it as a candidate and didn’t teach it- so I’m not sure if it’s local flavour or baked in the curriculum,
I’ve also choked people out who seized up in a position of rigidity that felt like resistance, hence why a ref has to be involved.
What is “reasonable” shifts according to the persons background and training. You’re speaking as if you’re discussing a cop. You aren’t.
We ll just have to see how it plays out. Then we can have a gander at what comes out. You guys are basing this off some deeper understanding of use of force that I’m not recent on perhaps. I haven’t done an SME report in ten years. We didn’t use someone’s proficiency in first aid as a barometer for anything.
We used post care to show their headspace or mindstate. But not as a way to discredit some technique. That could be the flavour today.
I need a cause of death- pressure on the neck isn’t enough. I need to know about the injuries specifically to understand better what’s going on.
The “chokehold” on the video is mechanically incorrect. Like complete garbage. Long flat bone of the forearm is across the windpipe. No pressure on the carotid sinus at all.
Fair point- after the camera cut there may have have been an attempt at resuscitation before emergency services arrived. I haven’t read that there was, but I can’t exclude it.Have you seen how long it was for fire/EMS to arrive? I haven’t. They roll the guy, the second bystander checks his pulse- he looks to me to have spasm and rigidity- and the video cuts.
I was trying to figure out if they left him there for one minute thinking he was going to recover- which would be more reasonable than no one checking his vitals for 5 minutes let’s say.
Thanks for that post brihard. I did find out he was a rifleman from 2017-2021 so lots of his training would have been “recent-ish” including the first aid and his MCMAP is baked into his trades training I can’t recall which belt but they all do the entry level and rifleman do more- but as I said before the technique was done incorrectly.
I suspect they shut that down ASAP.
Pity
Any confined space work should have lock outs - that the worker installs, and no one removes a lock out unless it’s the person who emplaced it.The TTC makes mistakes. I suppose NYC does too.
There's 600 volts in the third rail.
There have been cases where the power has been turned back on while our crews were pulling bodies out from under trains.
Other times when the power was off, the technician tested the train horn while our crews were working underneath.
Like to signal the train is about to move, with you still working under it. You don't know they are just testing the horn.
Before crawling under, you can see the blue platform lights are off. But, you can never be certain the power not be restored by people you can not see.
It's all about keeping service delays to a minimum.
And I agree. Despite taking ASIST and refreshers every two years many of our staff don't remember the basic steps of suicide intervention. Nor are they aware of policy regarding suicide prevention.The notion that a person ought to remember all training equally should be ridiculous to anyone who underwent some kind of training and picked up some lessons well and some not so well.
The notion that a person ought to remember all training equally should be ridiculous to anyone who underwent some kind of training and picked up some lessons well and some not so well.