NYC subway passenger dies after another puts him in a headlock

[KevinB]

What we know about the Marine veteran who killed Jordan Neely on the New York City subway

Daniel Penny served in the Marines Corps from 2017 to 2021.

taskandpurpose.com

Jordan Neely's family says Marine vet Daniel Penny "needs to be in prison" after killing Neely in subway chokehold

A grand jury could meet as soon as Monday to decide whether to bring criminal charges against 24-year-old Marine veteran Daniel Penny.

www.cbsnews.com

Now it appears there where three involved in the restraint, two unnamed who held limbs and Daniel Penny with the chokehold.

However one other aspect is that appears Perry stopped another passenger who was going to attempt to revive Neely with water.

It appears that during weekdays trains run every 4 min, and the line has 40 stops, with an average travel time between stops being 3 min
NYC F train stops

F Train (6 Avenue Local) Line Map

new.mta.info

f Route: Schedules, Stops & Maps - Downtown & Brooklyn (Updated)

See the full schedule and route on map for line F by MTA, arrival times for your station, service alerts for the line and more!

moovitapp.com

 

[mariomike]

Just came across this graph. Thought it somewhat topical:

I'm no mental health expert.

But, remembering where I was stationed in the early 1970's, I could see two uniformed PCPs - with additional training in mental health emergencies - teamed with a mental health professional in a marked, BLS equipped, non-transport, vehicle responding to 9-1-1 calls from/for people experiencing a mental health emergency.

With the same S.O.P. that has existed for many years,

4. wait for police assistance if,

a. there is an active shooter scenario, or
b. there is direct evidence of ongoing violence;

I think this would likely reduce uneccesary transports to hospitals.

The two PCPs would assess, "Treat and Release" physical health problems, which can be exaberated by or mask mental health problems.

Based on the PCP assessment, if the person needs a hospital, they can call for ambulance transport.

Of course, that will not solve the Big Picture problem of deinstitutionalization. But, I believe, would perhaps be a small step in the right direction.

 

[Maxman1]

Toleration of disorder eventually provokes matters-into-our-own-hands responses. Some responses will misjudge the situation and over-reach. The consequences of failure to maintain an orderly and civil society are predictable and were predicted. Having failed to achieve the more difficult goal, authorities must necessarily at least attempt to contain the consequences by applying the law. There is a source at which this category of problem ought to be fixed, and it is well upstream from where the effort will be spent.

 

[mariomike]

From a 2009 article discussing emergency power cut-off in NY subway.

Subway Platform's "Little-Known Switch" Could Have Saved Man

Courtesy lachance. [UPDATE BELOW] The MTA is looking into a horrible

gothamist.com

But it is the NY subway, they have their own view on how the world works. In the words of George Carlin:

“. . . In New York, most people don't have cars, so if you want to kill a person, you have to take the subway to their house. And sometimes on the way, the train is delayed and you get impatient, so you have to kill someone on the subway. That's why there are so many subway murders; no one has a car.”

FDNY Tips From Training & Safety: Idiots On The Train Tracks.

 

[KevinB]

FDNY Tips From Training & Safety: Idiots On The Train Tracks.

So use a water cannon you say…

 

[TacticalTea]

FDNY Tips From Training & Safety: Idiots On The Train Tracks.

Japan solved it long ago.

Where we're at according to the 'pedia:

 

[KevinB]

Japan solved it long ago.

Where we're at according to the 'pedia:

View attachment 77582

Most new systems have those. Like airport trams etc.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Japan solved it long ago.

Where we're at according to the 'pedia:

View attachment 77582

Likely keeps the stations cleaner as well.

 

[Blackadder1916]

Came across this while looking for background on the MCMAP, particularly how a Marine (they say, once a Marine always a Marine) may possibly have been trained to approach non-combat situations. Interspersed among the lessons on how to attack or defend are enabling objectives on "core values". I didn't quite understand the association of why certain "core values" are included in lessons of certain fighting skills, such as knife fighting and sexual responsibility.

This lesson, "Responsible Use of Force", is found beginning on page 146 of the 149 page pdf. "Chokes" are pages 103 to 109.

http://www.survivorlibrary.com/library/marine-martial-arts-training-.pdf

---

DETAILED OUTLINE
RESPONSIBLE USE OF FORCE

3. PRACTICAL SITUATIONS (10 MIN)
As a Marine the first situation you may find yourself in where you must react as a warrior may not be on the battlefield but while on liberty. In our daily lives we interact with fellow Marines, our families, friends, and the civilian population. Sooner or later you may find yourself in a potential confrontation that could range from a minor disagreement, domestic dispute, road rage, potential fight up to and including a riot. As a warrior you must be prepared to respond to each of these situations. Listed in descending order are options available for a warrior to take in order to arrive at a peaceful solution.

4 a. Identify a possible confrontational situation before you become involved and leave the area if possible.
b. If you have become involved attempt to remove yourself from the situation as quickly as possible.
c. If unable to leave or if extenuating circumstances prevent you from leaving attempt to descalate the situation. Do not become confrontational yourself.
d. If you find yourself being assaulted or attacked, immediately take charge of the situation by using the minimum amount of force necessary.
e. Be aware that alcohol and emotion do not mix and further aggrevate a confrontational situation. A Marine does not lose control of himself. He is a warrior whose mastery of Marine Corps Martial Arts allows him to control himself, his emotions and the situation.

---

 

[daftandbarmy]

Belt and beret off...

Ex-marine set to be charged over Jordan Neely subway killing, report says​

Sources say decision to charge Daniel Penny, 24, in wake of Neely’s chokehold death has been made by Manhattan DA’s office


Authorities in New York are expected as early as Friday morning to charge a former marine who put fellow subway passenger Jordan Neely in a chokehold that killed him, a local television station reported.

Citing two sources familiar with the matter, NBC4 in New York said that the decision to charge Daniel Penny, 24, had been made by the Manhattan district attorney’s office – and will happen without the charges being presented to a grand jury.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/may/10/jordan-neely-death-black-america
Neely’s killing has triggered widespread anger across New York and America. The death of Neely, an unhoused Michael Jackson impersonator who was Black, has become a symbol of inequality in the US as well as concern over racism and paranoia over crime and vigilantism. Penny is white.

Man surrenders to New York authorities for subway chokehold death of Jordan Neely

Daniel Penny, 24, faces second-degree manslaughter charges that could carry up to 15 years in jail, according to Manhattan DA’s office

www.theguardian.com

 

[mariomike]

Curtis had this to say about that,

https://twitter.com/x/status/1656778232362942466

 

[brihard]

Belt and beret off...

Ex-marine set to be charged over Jordan Neely subway killing, report says​

Sources say decision to charge Daniel Penny, 24, in wake of Neely’s chokehold death has been made by Manhattan DA’s office


Authorities in New York are expected as early as Friday morning to charge a former marine who put fellow subway passenger Jordan Neely in a chokehold that killed him, a local television station reported.

Citing two sources familiar with the matter, NBC4 in New York said that the decision to charge Daniel Penny, 24, had been made by the Manhattan district attorney’s office – and will happen without the charges being presented to a grand jury.
Jordan Neely’s cry for help should not have been his death sentence | Tayo Bero
Neely’s killing has triggered widespread anger across New York and America. The death of Neely, an unhoused Michael Jackson impersonator who was Black, has become a symbol of inequality in the US as well as concern over racism and paranoia over crime and vigilantism. Penny is white.

Man surrenders to New York authorities for subway chokehold death of Jordan Neely

Daniel Penny, 24, faces second-degree manslaughter charges that could carry up to 15 years in jail, according to Manhattan DA’s office

www.theguardian.com

Not punted to a Grand Jury? I’m a bit surprised by that. That being the case, the delay suggests there was some sort of evidentiary report they were waiting for to make a charging decision.

Looking at NY law on this, second degree manslaughter makes sense. The relevant difference between first and second degree is that first degree requires intent to cause hard to another person, while second degree does not require the intent to cause harm, while second degree merely requires negligence or recklessness.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I'm no mental health expert.

But, remembering where I was stationed in the early 1970's

Wouldn't first responders whip people with stinging nettles or apply warm ashes, hot water, burning dried animal poop etc.. to the abdomen of victims back then?

 

[Haggis]

Wouldn't first responders whip people with stinging nettles or apply warm ashes, hot water, burning dried animal poop etc.. to the abdomen of victims back then?

I believe you're thinking of your ISCC.

 

[Booter]

Not punted to a Grand Jury? I’m a bit surprised by that. That being the case, the delay suggests there was some sort of evidentiary report they were waiting for to make a charging decision.

Looking at NY law on this, second degree manslaughter makes sense. The relevant difference between first and second degree is that first degree requires intent to cause hard to another person, while second degree does not require the intent to cause harm, while second degree merely requires negligence or recklessness.

I’m not familiar with New York law- this is a class “C” felony?

 

[brihard]

I’m not familiar with New York law- this is a class “C” felony?

The Googles say Class C non-violent (???) felony. Normal range of 5-15 years, potentially with a minimum well below that.

But that’s a thirty second search, so don’t quote me.

 

[KevinB]

I’m not familiar with New York law- this is a class “C” felony?

Yes.

Sentence
Because manslaughter in the second degree is a class C felony, if you are convicted you could be sentenced to up to 15 years in state prison and be ordered to pay a substantial fine.

New York Penal Law § 125.15: Manslaughter in the second degree
A person is guilty of manslaughter in the second degree when:

1. He recklessly causes the death of another person; or
2. He commits upon a female an abortional act which causes her death, unless such abortional act is justifiable pursuant to subdivision three of § 125.05; or
3. He intentionally causes or aids another person to commit suicide.

 

[Booter]

Yes.

Sentence
Because manslaughter in the second degree is a class C felony, if you are convicted you could be sentenced to up to 15 years in state prison and be ordered to pay a substantial fine.

New York Penal Law § 125.15: Manslaughter in the second degree
A person is guilty of manslaughter in the second degree when:

1. He recklessly causes the death of another person; or
2. He commits upon a female an abortional act which causes her death, unless such abortional act is justifiable pursuant to subdivision three of § 125.05; or
3. He intentionally causes or aids another person to commit suicide.

I don’t think I am intelligent enough to deal with the way American laws work. I find it almost impenetrable.

 

[brihard]

I don’t think I am intelligent enough to deal with the way American laws work. I find it almost impenetrable.

Just think of it as being like an HTA demerit points grid. Practically the same idea.

 

[mariomike]

Japan solved it long ago.

Where we're at according to the 'pedia:

View attachment 77582

That would be nice. Maybe in the future.

But, if someone falls in, they have a good chance.

Try to climb out, with someone on the platform willing to help.
Or, lie down between the tracks.
Or, there's a "lip" under the platform to crawl into. Thats where they keep the baskets.
Or, step onto the girder that divides the tracks. Watch for the third rail!
Or, try to outrun the train.

Hopefully, someone has pushed the emergency shut off button under the blue light at the end of the platforms.

The driver has seen you in time to stop.

Anything is better than waiting to get creamed.

Any confined space work should have lock outs - that the worker installs, and no one removes a lock out unless it’s the person who emplaced it.

We didn't have them.