Navy getting the Sig 225 issued?

[KevinB]

Back when the contract was let, there was a BUNCH of wrangling to get the buy done, basically they where forced to select the P225 over the P226 as they had to chose a system that could not be considered a service pistol replacement, as then a formal replacement project would have been required..

 

[Inch]

I guess my sarcasm escaped some...

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The .45 would never fit all people and that's the main problem. That's why a 9mm was adopted. A 9mm can be handled by a majority of people who needs to use a sidearm, and hand size wise, most people have no problems gripping a 9mm pistol. However a .45 is substantially larger in comparison then the 9mm in grip and recoil would make it near impossible for those with smaller hand sizes to deploy it effectively. That and cost and blah blah non-NATO standard sized round.

I'll echo what Cobra-6 said, design has a lot more to do with grip size than calibre alone. 1911 grips are extremely close size wise to a Browning HP and are considerably smaller than Glock grips. Just because it's a 9mm doesn't mean the grip is smaller. I have taken many people to the range shooting, including girls, and they all agree that the 1911A1 in .45 is much more comfortable to shoot than my Glocks.

I find the P225 grip to be too short, my baby finger is crammed up against the protruding base of the mag and not very comfortable to hold. I own 3 1911's, you can get them in any calibre including 9mm, 40 S&W, .45 and 10mm. You can get 8 round flush fit mags for them or 10 round mags that protrude from the bottom of the mag well slightly.

As far as the recoil of a .45 goes, I find that a 40 S&W has more snap and muzzle flip than my .45's do. Yet 40 S&W is far and away the popular choice amongst law enforcement agencies.

1911's get my vote, for a design that's coming up on it's 100th anniversary and still is extremely popular with shooters all over the world, you can't go wrong. There are even double stack 9mm versions made by Para Ordnance that have a mag capacity of 18, that's one more than a Glock 17.

And for the record, US SOCOM as well as a few other black pyjama types use .45 calibre HK Mk 23's and 1911A1's. Just because it's non-NATO doesn't mean it's cost prohibitive to use, you can't put a price on something that works.

 

[medaid]

I'll echo what Cobra-6 said, design has a lot more to do with grip size than calibre alone. 1911 grips are extremely close size wise to a Browning HP and are considerably smaller than Glock grips. Just because it's a 9mm doesn't mean the grip is smaller. I have taken many people to the range shooting, including girls, and they all agree that the 1911A1 in .45 is much more comfortable to shoot than my Glocks.

I find the P225 grip to be too short, my baby finger is crammed up against the protruding base of the mag and not very comfortable to hold. I own 3 1911's, you can get them in any calibre including 9mm, 40 S&W, .45 and 10mm. You can get 8 round flush fit mags for them or 10 round mags that protrude from the bottom of the mag well slightly.

As far as the recoil of a .45 goes, I find that a 40 S&W has more snap and muzzle flip than my .45's do. Yet 40 S&W is far and away the popular choice amongst law enforcement agencies.

1911's get my vote, for a design that's coming up on it's 100th anniversary and still is extremely popular with shooters all over the world, you can't go wrong. There are even double stack 9mm versions made by Para Ordnance that have a mag capacity of 18, that's one more than a Glock 17.

And for the record, US SOCOM as well as a few other black pyjama types use .45 calibre HK Mk 23's and 1911A1's. Just because it's non-NATO doesn't mean it's cost prohibitive to use, you can't put a price on something that works.

Agreed. I was oversimplifying my reply... poor decision on my part. No indeed what ever works should be the thing that comes out in the end. Then again... it's also who we work for

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I suspect price, already a stock item and regulation around contracts all played a part. As much as I love Sigs, the ability to change grip size would be one of the big features I would be looking for in a pistol for issue to a large number of people. Sigs new Polymer pistol the 250 does offer that advantage, although I suspect the way they did it would be more advantage to a police department than military. It would be far easier to stock and carry a palm swell of the M&P than a huge number of frames that would be required for the 250 on a large issue.

 

[OldSolduer]

So the Navy is getting new pistols?
Very nice!! So how about the Army? Are we stuck with the Brownings? :-\
Personally, having been trained on the Hi-Power, and not familiar with other pistols, I'm bound by my less than vast depth on knowledge on this subject.
If we could get some rebuilt ones it would be much better than the old worn out ones we have now. Just a thought...

 

[dimsum]

So the Navy is getting new pistols?
Very nice!! So how about the Army? Are we stuck with the Brownings? :-\
Personally, having been trained on the Hi-Power, and not familiar with other pistols, I'm bound by my less than vast depth on knowledge on this subject.
If we could get some rebuilt ones it would be much better than the old worn out ones we have now. Just a thought...

I haven't been following this thread all the way, but if you're talking about P225s, they aren't new to the Navy.  We've had them for at least 7 years.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The problem with replacing the pistol is that there are so many thing s to be replaced, the pistols are just so far down the list. They are a decent design and well built, but dated. Consid ring the weight creep of personal equipment, it makes sense that the next pistol for the Army is a polymer based gun with a short slide, something like the G19, but with an interchangeable grip. In the meantime, ensuring there are good magazines for the pistol (the heart and soul of a semi-auto), making sure people know how to properly care for the pistol and use it, plus a decent selection of holsters would make what we have more effective.

 

[Sub Standard]

The Navy has been using the P225 for at more than 10 years now as I went on the boarding party in 1997 and it was already a standard weapon at that point.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The long term problem is they are not a standard product for Sig anymore, they may make a new batch if the order justified it and jigs are still around. I suspect if Navy went to Sig right now, they would be steered to the Sig 250 as Sig needs a decent size military contract for their new model, failing that the Sig 2022 would likely be offered.

Currently the US Coast Guard is using the Sig 229 in .40cal stateside and the Berretta M9 in 9mm overseas.