Logistic Vehicle Modernization Project - Replacing everything from LUVW to SHLVW

[Kirkhill]

That depends on what you're using them for. The line does blur in the middle but a flatbed or binner truck obviously isn't a fighting vehicle and an AFV obviously isn't a logistic vehicle. In your example I'd personally categorize the Bushmaster as an APC and the Senator as a PMV.

And yet

A medium-weight protective vehicle, weighing in at 15.4 tonnes with a four-tonne payload, the Bushmaster has a unique design and protective features which are built around a monocoque hull and a deep V shape that dissipates blasts, safeguarding the crew and mission systems inside.

The Bushmaster comes in different variants, including a troop carrier, command vehicle and ambulance.

 

[PrairieFella]

And yet

What in that description prevents it from being an APC?

An APC is "an armoured combat vehicle which is designed and equipped to transport a combat infantry squad and which, as a rule, is armed with an integral or organic weapon of less than 20 millimetres calibre."

Obviously the 40mm GMG is "greater" than the 20mm element however that's relating to cannons.

 

[Kirkhill]

What in that description prevents it from being an APC?

An APC is "an armoured combat vehicle which is designed and equipped to transport a combat infantry squad and which, as a rule, is armed with an integral or organic weapon of less than 20 millimetres calibre."

Nothing I suppose.

But the Protected Mobility Vehicle seems to be a new category of APC. Just like the IFV, once upon a time, was an APC variant.
And APCs came with all sorts of logistical variants.

Words are slippery things.

 

[Brad Sallows]

There are utility vehicles, and there are logistics vehicles. At some point we can't double up people and crews whose roles require independent transport.

 

[PrairieFella]

Nothing I suppose.

But the Protected Mobility Vehicle seems to be a new category of APC. Just like the IFV, once upon a time, was an APC variant.
And APCs came with all sorts of logistical variants.

Words are slippery things.

In my mind the distinction is the size of the elements in the back and the location. An APC carries a whole squad around a battlefield.

A PMV carries anything less than a squad in administrative areas since they generally aren't at the front.

Obviously that's a loose definition which has myriad exceptions but it's squared enough for my mind haha.

 

[KevinB]

Or combat losses. You don’t build resilience & survivability by consolidating all your eggs into fewer baskets.

2 is 1, one is none...

OFC the CA's theory is simply to slaughter some chickens to make sure you don't have that many eggs to need more baskets, replace the slaughtered chickens with Roosters to make it look like you still have the same amount of Chickens, but get castrated Roosters, to ensure they can't bred more Chickens

 

[Kirkhill]

2 is 1, one is none...

OFC the CA's theory is simply to slaughter some chickens to make sure you don't have that many eggs to need more baskets, replace the slaughtered chickens with Roosters to make it look like you still have the same amount of Chickens, but get castrated Roosters, to ensure they can't bred more Chickens

Sounds like the Canadian solution to health care.

Too many doctors charging too much money - reduce the number of doctors (and nurses) being educated in Canadian schools and reduce the number of licenses.

Problem solved.

 

[Furniture]

There is a significant issue with that line of thinking - because it assumes that one will be able to do more with less.

1 5t may equal 2x 2.5t trucks as far as cargo load goes - and some will believe it is good value for the money as you have less tires, fewer drivers, less platform to do maintenance on etc -
But that assumes that the 5t carried by the 2 2.5t trucks were all going to the same place - it also doesn't give any sort of wiggle room for breakdowns etc.

In all reality the demand will increase on the platforms, and you will end up just running those fewer system ragged in even shorter periods that the fleet it replaced.
The HLVW fleet got clapped out way faster than planned - as it was needing to do a lot of the MLVW roles as those had rusted away.
Sure it was a bigger truck - but when you are putting 3-4x the miles on them than planned...

I'm not pretending it's the best idea, rather I was just suggesting that it was part of the reasoning. Combined with a terrible procurement system that ensure we never actually get what we need.

 

[McG]

GM Defense pitches silent-drive vehicle as heir to the Humvee

GM Defense has developed a technology demonstrator to show the Army what is possible for a new tactical vehicle with a diesel engine and electric power.

www.defensenews.com

 

[PrairieFella]

Some alleged leaks of the Senator MRAP SMP. Possibly what roshel will be submitting for LUV. Certainly a big boy.

https://www.reddit.com/r/RoshelArmor/s/wi3LRbn6PI

 

[daftandbarmy]

Some alleged leaks of the Senator MRAP SMP. Possibly what roshel will be submitting for LUV. Certainly a big boy.

https://www.reddit.com/r/RoshelArmor/s/wi3LRbn6PI

COs and RSMs everywhere be like....

 

[KevinB]

Some alleged leaks of the Senator MRAP SMP. Possibly what roshel will be submitting for LUV. Certainly a big boy.

https://www.reddit.com/r/RoshelArmor/s/wi3LRbn6PI

Looks like a welfare version of JLTV

 

[PrairieFella]

Looks like a welfare version of JLTV

Budget friendly and way roomier lol. With far far more combat time than the JTLV haha. (I am on Team JTLV for LUV btw)

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Looks like a welfare version of JLTV

Given the buying power of our dollar, it makes more sense to buy Canadian. I take the 75% solution if it means we can afford 2 vehicles to replace 1.

 

[PrairieFella]

Given the buying power of our dollar, it makes more sense to buy Canadian. I take the 75% solution if it means we can afford 2 vehicles to replace 1.

You make a good point on purchasing power. I can see Euro equipment looking much more palatable considering the stability of the CAD vs the Euro as opposed to the USD. Trump's tariffs won't help that. Basically the same price now but from friendlier nations (and that pains me to say that, dark times ahead in our relationship with our neighbours).

 

[Colin Parkinson]

US also charges a 30% FMS fee as well

 

[PrairieFella]

US also charges a 30% FMS fee as well

Makes Leos and CV90s a lot more attractive vis à vis Abrams and AMPVs.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Makes Leos and CV90s a lot more attractive vis à vis Abrams and AMPVs.

or K2, K21 and K9's

 

[PrairieFella]

or K2, K21 and K9's

Cool shit don't get me wrong but any war we fight needing heavy mech forces will primarily be in the European theatre. Makes sense to have supply lines as close to there as possible.

Caesar/Archer > Leo > CV90/Puma > M777, etc etc.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Poland is going to start building the K2, K9 and K10 ARV. So parts will be in theatre.