Logistic Vehicle Modernization Project - Replacing everything from LUVW to SHLVW

[daftandbarmy]

Go Power Team!

Power Team announced as preferred bidder for LVM

new_item_en

www.canadiandefencereview.com

 

[KevinB]

Not new…

 

[ueo]

I can understand the concept of MilCOTS for the reserve side, though I'll never fully embrace it.... (but such is life under the almighty dollar right? ;D)

But With all the specific Military type Trucks out there, (Oskkosh, Mann, etc... ) how hard is it for one of those companies to just produce for us?

I know there are rules as far as procurement goes, but what would be the biggest thing that always seems to get in the way of the CF buying the Good or most capable equipment, vice (from some of the troops perspective) settling for second (or third or fourth... ) best? (apart from money)

Some staff puke looking to inflate PER scores adding CANADIAN (!) improvements/addons. Not so visible on land vehs as on aircraft/ships, but I suspect they're there.

 

[OldSolduer]

Go Power Team!

Power Team announced as preferred bidder for LVM

new_item_en

www.canadiandefencereview.com

Sounds like the HQ for the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers.......

 

[McG]

Perhaps the wording is fitted for but not with.

Perhaps the thinking was that armed conflict is returning to being more conventional, where the enemy lines are more defined, and therefore we won't be sending our logistics vehicles through enemy held territory, there is a lessor need to have them up armored. Maybe the CCA actually decided that given the projected use of the vehicles, risk was mitigated to a point deemed acceptable. The result being more bang for our buck.

This imagined scenario did not happen.
LVM will have armour packages for deployed operations.

 

[KevinB]

This imagined scenario did not happen.
LVM will have armour packages for deployed operations.

The only issue I see with this is the design.

The HEMTT down here was designed as part of the US Army LTAS (Long Term Armor Strategy) so the entire vehicle is designed for armor, but unless deployed the B kit (cab armor) isn’t fitted.


And with B kit



While the LVM appear to have a similar setup to the M1070 and M1300 series of trucks that have the HETUSK (Heavy Equipment Truck Urban Survival Kit) armor.

As such the HET’s only have cab armor, no engine etc armor package making them much susceptible to M kills and fires.

PEO CS&CSS: Product Manager Heavy Tactical Vehicles

www.peocscss.army.mil

The theory is the HET’s aren’t going to be in and around combat as they move combat equipment for logistics moves - while the HEMMT will be delivering supplies to the fighting forces (which sounds to me like the role of the LVM project.

 

[McG]

The armour packages was a requirement from the beginning.

https://buyandsell.gc.ca/cds/public/2021/11/30/64fe2a56f3e1fd0cc787c8bc66aad80d/ABES.PROD.PW__BW.B005.E28363.ATTA001.PDF

There is a reason the trucks are coming from a team with GDLS-Canada & Mercedes Benz - the LVM are SMP. The engineering, integration, and compatibility has been already built into the baseline vehicle.

 

[Fabius]

So will ours come with a RWS like the German ones?

 

[KevinB]

The armour packages was a requirement from the beginning.

https://buyandsell.gc.ca/cds/public/2021/11/30/64fe2a56f3e1fd0cc787c8bc66aad80d/ABES.PROD.PW__BW.B005.E28363.ATTA001.PDF

There is a reason the trucks are coming from a team with GDLS-Canada & Mercedes Benz - the LVM are SMP. The engineering, integration, and compatibility has been already built into the baseline vehicle.

With the front engine design your accepting the engine bay is exposed, or your armor package is a complete front end replacement (which makes engine maintenance a nightmare) which if based on the previous versions isn’t the case.

So you have unarmored engine and fuel lines etc. That to me is a requirements fail in a SMP vehicle. I’m glad it has crew protection, but honestly that’s no different than the armor kits that got thrown on commercial trucks for Iraq and Afghanistan.

Saying that it was part of design is to me a cop out. It’s not a purpose designed ground up armored logistics vehicle, it’s an armor package fitted to a commercial design - like a lot of countries that aren’t very serious about their logistics do.

Versus

 

[Fabius]

The armour packages was a requirement from the beginning.

https://buyandsell.gc.ca/cds/public/2021/11/30/64fe2a56f3e1fd0cc787c8bc66aad80d/ABES.PROD.PW__BW.B005.E28363.ATTA001.PDF

There is a reason the trucks are coming from a team with GDLS-Canada & Mercedes Benz - the LVM are SMP. The engineering, integration, and compatibility has been already built into the baseline vehicle.

Interesting that the CAF specifically stated that it’s not a one for one replacement as modular packages will allow for less vehicles.

 

[McG]

So will ours come with a RWS like the German ones?

That would be great, but I don't see any indicator that we every requested (or budgeted) for the inclusion of such.

Interesting that the CAF specifically stated that it’s not a one for one replacement as modular packages will allow for less vehicles.

We were still building the optimal Anti-Taliban Army that would operate from large comfortable MOBs & FOBs when this project got its legs.

With the front engine design your accepting the engine bay is exposed, or your armor package is a complete front end replacement (which makes engine maintenance a nightmare) which if based on the previous versions isn’t the case.

So you have unarmored engine and fuel lines etc. That to me is a requirements fail in a SMP vehicle. I’m glad it has crew protection, but honestly that’s no different than the armor kits that got thrown on commercial trucks for Iraq and Afghanistan.

Saying that it was part of design is to me a cop out. It’s not a purpose designed ground up armored logistics vehicle, it’s an armor package fitted to a commercial design - like a lot of countries that aren’t very serious about their logistics do.

The armour package was designed for the vehicle, and the vehicle design was modified to optimize compatibility. Both the vehicles and the armour are being built to be compatible with each other. We will have to wait and see what specifically that looks like. I am sure the project team or the industry partnership will have promotional pictures out soon.

 

[Fabius]

This imagined scenario did not happen.
LVM will have armour packages for deployed operations.

Given the project is only looking at 96 armoured kits, my guess is that any thing above a Battle Group size deployment will have a significant amount of non armoured vehicles around.

Anti Taliban force design indeed.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Interesting that the CAF specifically stated that it’s not a one for one replacement as modular packages will allow for less vehicles.

Sigh, we actually need a 2 for 1 replacement at this rate.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Perhaps the wording is fitted for but not with.

Perhaps the thinking was that armed conflict is returning to being more conventional, where the enemy lines are more defined, and therefore we won't be sending our logistics vehicles through enemy held territory, there is a lessor need to have them up armored. Maybe the CCA actually decided that given the projected use of the vehicles, risk was mitigated to a point deemed acceptable. The result being more bang for our buck.

IED's have been replaced with FPV drones for 30km behind the front.

 

[Spencer100]

I hope KevinB with back me up here.

The thing I dislike about this award is that it is the Euro Daimler Truck. Even with the GD program management and Canadian bolt-on's its a Euro truck with the support supply chain that entails. German support is not looking the best right now. Cough cough Ukraine.

I was looking thought the info to see if the Freightliner distribution and dealer network for support was part of it. The regular MB network would not be part as like in the G-Wagon as the Zetros is part of Daimler Truck AG now and that is Freightliner Western Star here in NA. Now I don't know if the Navistar experience is any good as plus or negative in this regard.

I just think a NA or US truck would have been a better solution on the logistics and support. Some of the parts of the American trucks are industry standard things here.

My worthless 2 cents.

 

[WinnipegFella]

To bring it back to LUVW replacement, is there any rumint that things are moving? With the milverado and gwagen self divestment proceeding swimmingly (who would have thought 20 year old vehicles with thousands of hard miles would break), it won't be long until there's nothing left for a whole lot of people who need these vehicles, especially reservists.

 

[MilEME09]

To bring it back to LUVW replacement, is there any rumint that things are moving? With the milverado and gwagen self divestment proceeding swimmingly (who would have thought 20 year old vehicles with thousands of hard miles would break), it won't be long until there's nothing left for a whole lot of people who need these vehicles, especially reservists.

project is proceeding, don't expect any news though for another year or so

Light utility vehicle project shifts into a new gear | Canadian Army Today

canadianarmytoday.com

Light Utility Vehicle - Defence Capabilities Blueprint

Light Utility Vehicle - Defence Capabilities Blueprint

apps.forces.gc.ca

 

[OldSolduer]

T
View attachment 82483

And with B kit

View attachment 82484



The theory is the HET’s aren’t going to be in and around combat as they move combat equipment for logistics moves - while the HEMMT will be delivering supplies to the fighting forces (which sounds to me like the role of the LVM project.

there you go with that "theory" word - but in actual practice it may differ

 

[WinnipegFella]

project is proceeding, don't expect any news though for another year or so

Light utility vehicle project shifts into a new gear | Canadian Army Today

canadianarmytoday.com

Light Utility Vehicle - Defence Capabilities Blueprint

Light Utility Vehicle - Defence Capabilities Blueprint

apps.forces.gc.ca

It's a goddamn scandal that a project that reached its end of life in 2019 (LUVW) won't realistically be replaced 2029. We're so bush league at all levels of the process. In the meantime, Reg units will continue to cannibalize what they have left and the Res units will have no training platforms. Of course this applies to a myriad of other programs. It's bloody hard to stay in this institution sometimes, especially when the higher ups spin so many of these kit problems as a stewardship problem. Can't steward something which just puked the contents of it's turbo into the motor. Frustrating.

 

[MilEME09]

It's a goddamn scandal that a project that reached its end of life in 2019 (LUVW) won't realistically be replaced 2029. We're so bush league at all levels of the process. In the meantime, Reg units will continue to cannibalize what they have left and the Res units will have no training platforms. Of course this applies to a myriad of other programs. It's bloody hard to stay in this institution sometimes, especially when the higher ups spin so many of these kit problems as a stewardship problem. Can't steward something which just puked the contents of it's turbo into the motor. Frustrating.

Procurement really is about create jobs not capabilities