LAV III Mobile Gun System (MGS)

[old medic]

Both of these seem to confirm it:

GD Press Release
http://www.generaldynamics.com/news/press_releases/2002/AudioNewsReleaseThursday,%20Dec19.htm
GD Profile
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/industry/general_dynamics.htm

GM just appears to have it's truck line remaining on the military end:
http://www.gmfleet.com/gmfleetjsp/government/product/military.jsp

 

[Lance Wiebe]

The MGS is being built on its own assembly line, in Alabama.  In some ways it makes sense, because it has less than 5% parts commonality with the LAV III.

 

[McG]

If (God willing) harper gets in as PM, do you think the Canadian MGS order will be cancelled?

Well, he has not mentioned tanks as part of his defence platform.

 

[Cloud Cover]

The MGS is being built on its own assembly line, in Alabama.  In some ways it makes sense, because it has less than 5% parts commonality with the LAV III.

I thought a larger portion was coming out of Oxford street, but maybe its just the basic frame/chassis for the first 10 copies:

"GM GDLS Defense Group L.L.C. of Shelby Township, Mich., is being awarded a delivery order amount of $8,577,753 as part of an estimated face value $48,223,776 firm-fixed-price contract for ten Mobile Gun System Vehicles to include a one-time non-recurring charge. Work will be performed in at GM, Canada (32%); GDLS, Ohio, Michigan and Alabama (39%); and other various locations (29%) and is expected to be completed by Jan. 15, 2003. Contract funds will expire at the end of the current fiscal year. Bids were solicited on the World Wide Web and 17 bids were received. The U.S. Army Tank and Automotive Command, Warren, Mich., is the contracting activity (DAAE0700-D-M051). "


http://www.defenselink.mil/contracts/2001/c12172001_ct643-01.html

 

[CanadianBoy92]

Now that the Conservatives are in power will the plan be scraped or has someone heard that they will keep it going?

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

They just got in and haven't had time to break any of their promises so just wait a bit.  They haven't even sworn in Harper or formed a new cabinet.

 

[Matt_Fisher]

Now, if the Conservatives are crafty, they'll pull this one out of the fire through some imaginative contract renegotiations;
If they cancel the order outright, GDLS will likely hit them with all kinds of cancellation penalties, but what they could do would be to keep that $66M going to GDLS, but change the contract (by also doing some political maneuvering with the US DOD) to acquire a regiment's worth of used M1A1s similar to what the Aussies did.

 

[Lance Wiebe]

As far as I'm aware, we haven't signed the final contract yet, just made promises.......or maybe that's just wishful thinking!

 

[marty737]

I have read about your LAV's on this forum. Sounds like alot of people are against them. We are using ASLAV's here in Australia, and I have found them to be one of the best vehicles around for high speed mobility. These vehicle's have also seen action in Iraq and we have only lost a couple of them due to IED's. Thank God due to the way these have been made all the crew have managed to survive these attacks. We have even had RPG's bouncing of these vehicle's . They might not be a tank but this is the way modern warfare is turning to. The day's of the tank are slowly coming to a end. We are going away from the Leopard here and have got M1 Abram on the way. The last time Australia sent tanks overseas was in Vietnam. I would gladly join your Army anyday to drive the worlds best vehicle ever made. Have driven them over here and love them.

 

[George Wallace]

marty737

We are discussing the LAV MGS, not the ASLAV.  Two completely different vehicles.  This is the POS that we are talking about:

http://www.sfu.ca/casr/101-vehlavmgs1.htm

The LAV family is a fairly good family of vehicles, we however have little to no faith in the MGS being a viable piece of kit.

 

[geo]

Marty.
Glad to have you aboard. I think that most people are not necessarily against the LAVIII itself. More of a gripe against the decision to give up whatever advantage an MBT (Leo/M1) might have for something like the MGS.
The MGS is supposed to be based on the American Stryker (LAV Variant) more than on the LAVIII original..... However, considering they have not, as yet, been field tested or deployed - we'll just have to wait and see.

In the meantime - enjoy the ride.

 

[CanadianBoy92]

Now, if the Conservatives are crafty, they'll pull this one out of the fire through some imaginative contract renegotiation's;
If they cancel the order outright, GDLS will likely hit them with all kinds of cancellation penalties, but what they could do would be to keep that $66M going to GDLS, but change the contract (by also doing some political maneuvering with the US DOD) to acquire a regiment's worth of used M1A1s similar to what the Aussies did.

Sound like a good idea.

 

[Armymatters]

Now, if the Conservatives are crafty, they'll pull this one out of the fire through some imaginative contract renegotiations;
If they cancel the order outright, GDLS will likely hit them with all kinds of cancellation penalties, but what they could do would be to keep that $66M going to GDLS, but change the contract (by also doing some political maneuvering with the US DOD) to acquire a regiment's worth of used M1A1s similar to what the Aussies did.

Or a contract for Stryker M1129 120mm Mortar Carrier variant... Canada should field a 120mm mortar, and then covert the Bison 81mm mortar carrier to other duties...

 

[xxtruthxx]

^^^all great ideas but we're going to get into the same "snafu" as we are now with the MGS . All these new LAVs and no way to get them where they might actually be usefull. As unlikely as it is the NDHQ needs a serious overhaul in the why it procures new equipment and for that matter on the way it does anything these days.

Truth

Just my opnion.

 

[Lance Wiebe]

I heard someone today mention that the MGS project has been zero-funded, and all personnel on the project assigned new tasks.

Can anyone verify this?

Or is it just more wishful thinking turning into rumours?

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Lance could you quantify that rumor?

 

[solidarnosc]

Hi. I don't want to go off topic but maybe this is relevant for the discussion. Belgium bought 242 Piranha III AIV's from MOWAG (General Dynamics) for 700 million €. 99 equiped with a remote controlled weapon system. (probably the Arrows 300 .50 (FN)), 32 with a 30mm canon (probably the ORCWS from Elbit because they have a smal systercompany in Oudenaarde that makes optical instruments (OIP) and the statement said that the canon can be controlled from under the hull) and 40 MK8 90mm's. 24 command vehicles, 12 ambulances, 17 repair vehicles en 18 engeneer. There was some debate about this, mainly political, not military since CMI is a Walloon company and we have a Walloon minister of defence so every discision in favour or that looks in favour of a Walloon company is (made) suspicious in the Flemish part of the country also because the only company that offers 90mm ammo for the Mk8 (Mecar)is situated in the home town of the minister of defence (Nivelle).  It is not mentioned in the media that CMI also has a gun/turret called the CT-CV and the fact Mecar also produces 105mm rounds (for the Leopard 1's). (They recently received a contract for 105mm's for the MGS system) Ministry of defence didn't defend their dissision for the 90mm nor explained why they didn't buy the CT-CV or another 105mm canon. Maybe also interesting for Canadians. The troop carriers (99?) will be equiped with a Small Arms Detection and Localisation System (SADLS.) Maybe they saw something usefull in Afghanistan. I think this was a good week for the sales people at GD.  

 

[TCBF]

Very interesting.  Thank you for that info, and welcome to Army.ca!

Tom

 

[solidarnosc]

Very interesting.  Thank you for that info, and welcome to Army.ca!

Tom

Thanks. If I read something in Dutch/French that could be of interest for this discussion (in particular why they went for the 90mm instead of the 105mm) I will let you know.(Flemish) media are suggesting that Belgian MOD did CMI the favour of the year while CMI probably hoped that Belgium would have been the launching customer for their new "product". Now people interested in the CT-CV will be asking questions why Belgium didn't put "the most advanced and innovative weapon system in its class specifically designed for air-transportable light armoured vehicles" on top of that vehicle. Lack of money is probably the answer or maybe the 90mm's looks less agressive.  Minister of defence said that other countries will choose a 90mm in the futur.

 

[Kirkhill]

Hi solidarnosc and welcome as well.

Do you happen to know, or can you find out, what types of 90mm ammunition Mecar currently has available?

Cheers.