JTF2 & AFG (merged)

[P-Free]

coward - One who shows ignoble fear in the face of danger or pain.

Now how are terrorists who blow themselves up cowards..?

 

[Jarnhamar]

I would argue a rapist who stalks women in the middle of the night raping them terrorizes not only the victim but whole communities.  The same can be said for child molesters released from prison into rual communities, murderers etc..   Creates terror. Is there different types of terror?
Whats the first thing that comes to your mind when you hear terrorist.? To me I think muslim is islamic.
Thats a very very stupid thing to think, I know, and i kick myself int he ass for it but it just seems like thats whats being forced on peoples minds.


I know trying to put suicide bombers and rapists in the same boat is really grasping at straws but I ment to point out how over used the word is.

 

[The_Falcon]

coward - One who shows ignoble fear in the face of danger or pain.

Now how are terrorists who blow themselves up cowards..?

"Word History: A coward is one who â Å“turns tail.â ? The word comes from Old French couart, coart, â Å“coward,â ? and is related to Italian codardo, â Å“coward.â ? Couart is formed from coe, a northern French dialectal variant of cue, â Å“tailâ ? (from Latin cda), to which the derogatory suffix -ard was added. This suffix appears in bastard, laggard, and sluggard, to name a few. A coward may also be one with his tail between his legs. In heraldry a lion couard, â Å“cowardly lion,â ? was depicted with his tail between his legs. So a coward may be one with his tail hidden between his legs or one who turns tail and runs like a rabbit, with his tail showing."


ignoble-characterized by baseness, lowness, or meanness

I can use a dictionary too. 

Yeah it takes a real man to walk into crowed subway station/bus and blowup people just going about their daily lives, then tuck tail and blow himself up, so he doesn't have to face the consequences of his actions.

Why don't you join the army, learn what professional soldier and warriors do.  Until then go back to your xbox.

 

[Gramps]

I highly doubt that there are too many people on this board that would have the audacity to strap themselves with explosives and know that they will die once the button is pushed. They are definitely not heroes but I also don't think that they are cowards. I would say that they are one of the most effective weapons around today but, then again that is strictly an opinion, nothing more.

 

[Roy Harding]

I highly doubt that there are too many people on this board that would have the audacity to strap themselves with explosives and know that they will die once the button is pushed. They are definitely not heroes but I also don't think that they are cowards. I would say that they are one of the most effective weapons around today but, then again that is strictly an opinion, nothing more.

Perhaps, just perhaps, none of us are looking for an escape from our lives???

 

[Gramps]

I truly don't believe that all of the suicide bombers (or more appropriately put to me by one of my counterparts from the USAF, Homicide Bombers) are trying to escape their lives.

 

[Roy Harding]

I truly don't believe that all of the suicide bombers (or more appropriately put to me by one of my counterparts from the USAF, Homicide Bombers) are trying to escape their lives.

They may not be trying, but they're sure succeeding.

 

[Gramps]

"They may not be trying, but they're sure succeeding."

When you are right, you are right. I can't argue with you on that point. I bet nobody expected me to so easily agree with someone here. Cheers.

 

[48Highlander]

coward - One who shows ignoble fear in the face of danger or pain.

Now how are terrorists who blow themselves up cowards..?

So they're not neccesarily cowards, but their actions certainly don't make them brave.   Hiding amongst civilians, attacking the defenceless, ensuring that they're not around to be questioned after their job is done...all of those acts seem designed to ensure that at no point are they in any serious danger.   And as has been pointed out, the ones who are caught generaly sing like canaries.   It might be wrong to charactirise the entire lot of them as cowards, but I have yet to see one (or hear of one) doing anything brave.

And pleeeeease don't use the phrase "homicide bomber".  Most bombers commit homocide, only a certain type commits suicide at the same time though.  Homocide bomber is a meaningless f*ing term, one I could do with never hearing again.

 

[Acorn]

Why don't you join the army, learn what professional soldier and warriors do.   Until then go back to your xbox.

Anyone else see the irony in this coming from a 22-year-old Reservist?

You're out of your lane Hatchet Man. Leave figuring out the enemy's motivation to those with the experience to make a judgement. Stick to pointing your weapon where your section comd tells you to.

Acorn

 

[McG]

I would argue a rapist who stalks women in the middle of the night raping them terrorizes not only the victim but whole communities.  The same can be said for child molesters released from prison into rual communities, murderers etc..   Creates terror. Is there different types of terror?

Yes, those crimes would cause fear in a community.  However, wide spread terror is not an objective of the criminals committing these crimes.  If you want to dream up some hypothetical rapist that is using the crime to cause fear in order to achieve some other political or economic objective, then sure we can call that individual a terrorist.

I know trying to put suicide bombers and rapists in the same boat is really grasping at straws but I ment to point out how over used the word is.

It seems to me that you are the one over using the word by suggesting it might be applied to any violent criminal.

 

[The_Falcon]

Anyone else see the irony in this coming from a 22-year-old Reservist?

You're out of your lane Hatchet Man. Leave figuring out the enemy's motivation to those with the experience to make a judgement. Stick to pointing your weapon where your section comd tells you to.

Acorn

So only reg force are allowed to make comments about what professional soldiers do :

 

[Roy Harding]

So only reg force are allowed to make comments about what professional soldiers do :

Acorn may have been pointing more at your age, and the implied lack of experience inherent; as well as the fact you are (and apparently always have been) a reservist - and the implied lack of experience inherent in that as well.

Your opinions are usually fairly well thought out and presented, don't lets get down to name calling and "he said, she said" - it doesn't prove anything.

 

[Conway]

Just a thought about the insurgent vs. terrorist argument.  I'm not sure how motivated I would be to go up against a bradley or a battle tank with an Ak and 30 rounds.  I have to admit, I have much respect for someone who is willing (and actually plans), to lay down their life by blowing themselves up amongst a group of recruits/police/soldiers.  Not to say that I side with them, but one cannot simply look at it as a cowardly act.  Some might consider sitting around while calling in an airstrike on a single sniper in a building as a cowardly act, us Westerners call it technological advantage. 
And another thought on the targeting of civilians...it's called Total War.  It's been around for decades and it will be around forever.  The enemy is no longer simply the armed forces of a particular group, but the entire group itself.  So if targeting civilians is a terrorist action, I suppose every air raid on a city ever mounted was a terrorist act.  It's just the way the media spins it.  These guys are desperate, they don't have the money or the technology that we do, so they'll do what they have to do to make their point.

 

[Slim]

So only reg force are allowed to make comments about what professional soldiers do :

maybe its because he's served for years in the intelligence branch and has seen things like this over and over again...While you are relatively young and have not served for very long, or seen much outside the infantry box that you operate in.

No one is trying to insult anyone else...Acorn is a pro at this stuff and has dealt with it often enough in real life.

Take the opportunity to learn from him and others like him while you can.

Slim
STAFF

 

[paracowboy]

So only reg force are allowed to make comments about what professional soldiers do :

chill, mon...
Acorn has never been one to drag in that tired old "Regs vs Res" cliche that I've seen.

 

[couchcommander]

I think the distinction that was trying to be made is as follows:

Insurgent: A person attempting to disrupt the established order and bring about political, social, or economic change through the use of violence.

Terrorist: Same as above, except their methods usually involve the use of tactics designed to more so instill fear and chaos in society rather than large scale destruction (though I am sure they would not mind if this occured as well). Frequently targetted at noncombatant populations. (though the Bush administration seems to use this label for anyone they have a desire to be rid of.... )

Mind you these are definitions I just pulled out of my head so I wouldn't take them as the gospel.

I'd like to add that IMO insurgents can indeed be terrorists.... there is no big black line diffentiating the two but from my experience usage of the word terrorist implies a spefic set of strategies and tactics, whereas insurgent is more general.

Re: Coward?

I'm on the fence. On one hand I think that you have to have pretty big balls to blow yourself up for something you believe in.

On the other hand I think killing unarmed noncombatants with little to do with the war has to be one of the MOST cowardly acts in existance.

In my opinion (and this is just my personal opinion, I am not in any way trying to impose this upon you fellows or debate the merits of it) I'd call terrorists "determined cowards"... but that's just me....

 

[Britney Spears]

"Insurgent or Terrorist?"  The thread that never ends! 

 

[Acorn]

So only reg force are allowed to make comments about what professional soldiers do :

No son (I say "son" because by my count I was in uniform before you were in liquid form), I'm saying that from where I sit the difference between you, at 22 with some reserve years, and a 17 y/o with no mil experience is not great. I also look at it from the perspective that I was once a young reservist as well, so I know when piss and vinegar can drown rational thought. You're hammering down on a young fellow based on your vast experience. I'm doing the same based on mine - doesn't feel good on the receiving end, does it?

On the point of the discussion, I think P-free might just be a bit closer than you in his judgement of the enemy. But that's just based on my experience, so I could be wrong.

Acorn

 

[edadian]

I've seen complaints on this site about threads 'devolving' into JTF2 threads, now I'm on a JTF2 thread that has devolved into name calling and politics. The people JTF2 are facing are just the enemy, no need to call them anything else.

The people JTF2 are going up against again (why was there a break in their deployment?) defeated the Russians. Russian military philosophy is based on Sun Tzu where only fools let the enemy choose the ground. Afghanistan is a good choice for defending, it is a land that traditionally eats armies, so how do we choose a new battlefield?

The Liberals have pumped as much money into defence as Conservatives through Canada's history. Both parties use the CF as a political pawn to win elections. On the Liberal watch we received RMC Kingston, the RCN, the C1, nuclear weapons (then the got rid of them) etc. Under Conservatives we got the cuts under Cambell, cancellation of the Arrow and the old Tory belief professional soldiers were to useless for real work.

The quote about growing to fond of war is from Gen. Robert E. Lee.