A
aesop081
Guest
Inch said:
Yeah , we have corporate AMEX for rental cars, hotels and stuff like that. Usualy for fuel we have the contract cards in the AMRS book but the corporate AMEX can be used for that too.
Incindental Expense Allowance [Merged]
- Thread starter PtePwnage
- Start date
Yeah , we have corporate AMEX for rental cars, hotels and stuff like that. Usualy for fuel we have the contract cards in the AMRS book but the corporate AMEX can be used for that too.
- Reaction score
- -1
- Points
- 210
Vern, I can only venture to guess that she did not properly convey her message through written format. Also know that not so long ago if a person had not finalized your claim within 14 days of your return, I gladly recovered those funds because they had been clearly advised of the time requisite, all they had to do is submit their claim within 2 weeks. However these days, although the books still read that recovery is to occur within 14 days, the kinder gentler military does not condone it. Rather we are now expected to them emails reminding them, granting them additional time, calling them etc etc All this time wasted chasing someone down when a quick recovery solved the issue. Not to mention that once they had the monies recovered once, oddly enough those folks were never late with their claims after. But I reminisce in the good ol’ Fin Clk days.
Recceguy & Roy, the vast amounts of information these days and in the way it is all disseminated truly hinders anyone’s ability to know the RMS field in great depth and exactitude. Only through the sharing of our knowledge can we hope to present accurate and timely advice. I too welcome your input which allows me to broaden my field.
The intial intent with the advent of ClaimsX was for members/claimants to raise their own claim prior to sending to be Section 32’d, and upon return to complete the claim prior to sending for Section 34. That was (and based on George’s post still is) the intent behind ClaimsX, however that has simply not been the practice in area I have ever seen or heard of. The primary duty remains with the clerk with the exception of some Executive/Admin Assistants to the upper echelons for the most part. But, before the complete devolution of this occurs, much work remains to be done on the ClaimsX Web to ensure it is “fool proof” (or realistically as much as possible) as without it wall fall back to the clerks.
The long and short of it is that pers who hold and AMEX DTC are not supposed to be issued advances unless it is for the purpose of paying off their bill due to a claim not being finalized in due time. FAM 1016-7-3 Para 30 refers.
To get back on the initial topic, as many have mentioned contact your OR (or whomever you submitted your claim to) to see if anything was missing. If not then they can query through the chain as to the status of claim. However individual circumstances by ASU’s/CFB’s, Wing’s etc can also curtail the length of time your claim takes to be finalized. Despite any references which can be quoted, some bases across Canada are as far as 6 weeks (some more) in the finalization of claims. Many reasons exist for these delays but I however do not agree that it be deemed acceptable. Ignorance is no excuse, the same applies to professional incompetence (harsh maybe but justified based on what I have witnessed in recent years).
Now that I am getting carpal tunnel, I think it is time for my morning coffee. Hoping this has helped any.
Recceguy & Roy, the vast amounts of information these days and in the way it is all disseminated truly hinders anyone’s ability to know the RMS field in great depth and exactitude. Only through the sharing of our knowledge can we hope to present accurate and timely advice. I too welcome your input which allows me to broaden my field.
Also consider that ClaimsX Web is a new application just recently launched with Clerks all but left to themselves to figure out. Those combined can be conducive to longer wait times.Nfld Sapper said:
The intial intent with the advent of ClaimsX was for members/claimants to raise their own claim prior to sending to be Section 32’d, and upon return to complete the claim prior to sending for Section 34. That was (and based on George’s post still is) the intent behind ClaimsX, however that has simply not been the practice in area I have ever seen or heard of. The primary duty remains with the clerk with the exception of some Executive/Admin Assistants to the upper echelons for the most part. But, before the complete devolution of this occurs, much work remains to be done on the ClaimsX Web to ensure it is “fool proof” (or realistically as much as possible) as without it wall fall back to the clerks.
In fact, yes it is National Policy and not a unit SOP (sorry Aviator) The intent (one of them anyways) for the AMEX DTC (not to be confused with the GTC which you may also have Aviator) was to allow individuals the flexibility to travel without the requirement for any advances. The end goal being to reduce the amount of advances which in turn severely affect a Cashier’s WCF, reducing its capability by tying up excessively large sums in Cash Vouchers. Bean counter talk aside – advances were and still are a very large liability for the CF. Through the use of the AMEX DTC (ITC was its predecessor) advances would no longer be issued reducing the liability not to mention reducing costs is some aspects – such as insurance on Rental Vehicle covered by AMEX.HFXCrow said:
The long and short of it is that pers who hold and AMEX DTC are not supposed to be issued advances unless it is for the purpose of paying off their bill due to a claim not being finalized in due time. FAM 1016-7-3 Para 30 refers.
To get back on the initial topic, as many have mentioned contact your OR (or whomever you submitted your claim to) to see if anything was missing. If not then they can query through the chain as to the status of claim. However individual circumstances by ASU’s/CFB’s, Wing’s etc can also curtail the length of time your claim takes to be finalized. Despite any references which can be quoted, some bases across Canada are as far as 6 weeks (some more) in the finalization of claims. Many reasons exist for these delays but I however do not agree that it be deemed acceptable. Ignorance is no excuse, the same applies to professional incompetence (harsh maybe but justified based on what I have witnessed in recent years).
Now that I am getting carpal tunnel, I think it is time for my morning coffee. Hoping this has helped any.
A
aesop081
Guest
PO2FinClk said:
I'm just glad you came along and explained the process. What happens at my unit is how i described .
TN2IC
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 430
That was a very helpful/ useful topic. I am currently on a road trip right now. And us truckers live by the AMEX card. Just as long as you submit your paper work after you fine. It is pretty helpful for those last mintue details. ie... This one. ;D
Wow.. c'est Quebec!
au revoir!
;D
I have a village to pillage!
Arr... he har...
Wow.. c'est Quebec!
au revoir!
;D
I have a village to pillage!
Arr... he har...
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
PO2FinCLk:
Thanks for the answer on the AMEX and the National Policy. Now I can quit whining. But for the record I dont like it!
When I flew with TAL a couple of years back, the Navigator held all the cash for meals and paid for everything else! Awesome system! It seems similar to the LRP way that CDNAviator described.
Thanks for the answer on the AMEX and the National Policy. Now I can quit whining. But for the record I dont like it!
When I flew with TAL a couple of years back, the Navigator held all the cash for meals and paid for everything else! Awesome system! It seems similar to the LRP way that CDNAviator described.
A
aesop081
Guest
HFXCrow said:
TAL used the bulk Claim concept. Meaning there were no individual claims for TD. The nav drew a large amount of cash and gave you your TD entitlement. The poor guy woud have to account for all this himself, paperwork and all.
We dont dont do that. Crew memebers take care of their own TD claims and get their own money. The crew commander has the corporate AMEX and pays the Hotel and car rental bills only.
- Reaction score
- 1,841
- Points
- 1,190
When we go away on course, or an exercise, everyone gets Incidental Expense for the entire time they are away. Claims-X automatically applies it, and I've seen it given across the board.
However, chapter 7 and 8 of the CFTDTIs start with the same requirementes for application:
The key here is "between". Once you arrive at the "other" duty location, you are no longer travelling "between" locations, and therefore, Chapter 7, and the benefits contained therein, no longer apply to you.
Since incidentals are a sub-paragraph of chapter 7 (and 8), it would then follow that you would no longer be entitled to the incidental expense allowance.
So, why does everyone I've ever seen go on a tasking or training course earning Incidental Expense Allowance when they were required to stay in accommodations? It doesn't seem to follow the official reference.
However, chapter 7 and 8 of the CFTDTIs start with the same requirementes for application:
The key here is "between". Once you arrive at the "other" duty location, you are no longer travelling "between" locations, and therefore, Chapter 7, and the benefits contained therein, no longer apply to you.
Since incidentals are a sub-paragraph of chapter 7 (and 8), it would then follow that you would no longer be entitled to the incidental expense allowance.
So, why does everyone I've ever seen go on a tasking or training course earning Incidental Expense Allowance when they were required to stay in accommodations? It doesn't seem to follow the official reference.
- Reaction score
- 1,841
- Points
- 1,190
Pusser said:
I did. It says "and" between sub-paras (b) and (c), not "or". Therefore, the way I read it, all 3 sub-paras need to apply before the chapter applies to a member.
If, a AND b, AND c, apply to you, use this chapter. If not, go find a different chapter.
At least that's the way I read it. I'll trust your judgment in that I am wrong.
- Reaction score
- 79
- Points
- 680
Maybe this section will help?
7.16 Incidental expense allowance
1. (Entitlement) Subject to paragraph (3), a member is entitled to an incidental expense allowance if all of the following conditions are satisfied:
a. the member is on duty travel; and
b. the member occupies accommodations
2. (Interpretation) For greater certainty, a gym - or spa or fitness centre fee - incurred by a member who is on duty travel is an incidental expense.
3. (No Entitlement) There is no entitlement to an incidental expense allowance if any of the following conditions are satisfied:
a. the member is on adventure training authorized by or under the authority of the Chief of the Defence Staff;
b. with the exception of sick leave granted under QR&O article 16.16 (Sick Leave), the member is on leave under QR&O chapter 16 (Leave);
c. the member is in hospital;
d. the member is in receipt of an allowance under Section 2 (Environmental Allowances) of CBI 205 (Allowances For Officers And Non-Commissioned Members) and is,
i. deployed - in the field - on operations or training exercises of 24 hours or longer duration, or
ii. aboard a ship - or submarine - that is out of port for more than 24 hours; or
e. the member is on leave because the member requested to use a PMV rather than a more economical and practical mode of transportation and the member uses that PMV for duty travel.
4. (Amount) The amount of the incidental expense allowance is:
a. in respect of the first 30 days of duty travel, 100% of the rate set out in the NJC Travel Directive for the member’s location at the start of each day; and
b. in respect of the 31 stand any subsequent day of duty travel, 75% of the rate set out in the NJC Travel Directive for the member’s location at the start of the day.
7.16 Incidental expense allowance
1. (Entitlement) Subject to paragraph (3), a member is entitled to an incidental expense allowance if all of the following conditions are satisfied:
a. the member is on duty travel; and
b. the member occupies accommodations
2. (Interpretation) For greater certainty, a gym - or spa or fitness centre fee - incurred by a member who is on duty travel is an incidental expense.
3. (No Entitlement) There is no entitlement to an incidental expense allowance if any of the following conditions are satisfied:
a. the member is on adventure training authorized by or under the authority of the Chief of the Defence Staff;
b. with the exception of sick leave granted under QR&O article 16.16 (Sick Leave), the member is on leave under QR&O chapter 16 (Leave);
c. the member is in hospital;
d. the member is in receipt of an allowance under Section 2 (Environmental Allowances) of CBI 205 (Allowances For Officers And Non-Commissioned Members) and is,
i. deployed - in the field - on operations or training exercises of 24 hours or longer duration, or
ii. aboard a ship - or submarine - that is out of port for more than 24 hours; or
e. the member is on leave because the member requested to use a PMV rather than a more economical and practical mode of transportation and the member uses that PMV for duty travel.
4. (Amount) The amount of the incidental expense allowance is:
a. in respect of the first 30 days of duty travel, 100% of the rate set out in the NJC Travel Directive for the member’s location at the start of each day; and
b. in respect of the 31 stand any subsequent day of duty travel, 75% of the rate set out in the NJC Travel Directive for the member’s location at the start of the day.
- Reaction score
- 1,841
- Points
- 1,190
NFLD Sapper said:
Appreciate the attempt to help, however:
1. "Duty Travel" isn't defined anywhere; and
2. My whole argument hinges on the idea that as soon as any one of the 3 sub-paras in para 7.01 fails, the rest of the chapter no longer applies, including para 7.16.
- Reaction score
- 79
- Points
- 680
4.03 Duty travel - authorization
1. (Requirements) An approving authority who authorizes duty travel shall do so in writing before the duty travel begins. For greater certainty, a member is not entitled to any benefit under the CFTDTI without prior, written authorization for duty travel by an approving authority.
2. (Frequency) Subject to paragraph (1), an approving authority may authorize duty travel for the member once or any number of times (i.e. blanket authorization) during a year.
4.11 Member's duty travel responsibilities
A member shall:
a. become acquainted with the CFTDTI;
b. obtain advance authorization for duty travel;
c. book duty travel through the DND Travel Centre;
d. whenever it is practicable, use:
i. their IDTC - if the member is issued one - in accordance with FAM 1016-7-3 (Individual Travel Card); and
ii. government approved - or if unavailable, Canadian - suppliers, services, and products;
e. submit duty travel claims - and receipts and necessary supporting documentation - within one year after the completion of the duty travel unless the circumstances disclose sufficient reasons for the delay and those reasons are endorsed by the CMP personally;
f. manage duty travel expenses responsibly (e.g. cancel reservations as required, safeguard travel advances and funds provided, and make outstanding remittances promptly); and
g. not seek payment under section 35(2) of the National Defence Act in respect of anything provided at no expense to the member.
1. (Requirements) An approving authority who authorizes duty travel shall do so in writing before the duty travel begins. For greater certainty, a member is not entitled to any benefit under the CFTDTI without prior, written authorization for duty travel by an approving authority.
2. (Frequency) Subject to paragraph (1), an approving authority may authorize duty travel for the member once or any number of times (i.e. blanket authorization) during a year.
4.11 Member's duty travel responsibilities
A member shall:
a. become acquainted with the CFTDTI;
b. obtain advance authorization for duty travel;
c. book duty travel through the DND Travel Centre;
d. whenever it is practicable, use:
i. their IDTC - if the member is issued one - in accordance with FAM 1016-7-3 (Individual Travel Card); and
ii. government approved - or if unavailable, Canadian - suppliers, services, and products;
e. submit duty travel claims - and receipts and necessary supporting documentation - within one year after the completion of the duty travel unless the circumstances disclose sufficient reasons for the delay and those reasons are endorsed by the CMP personally;
f. manage duty travel expenses responsibly (e.g. cancel reservations as required, safeguard travel advances and funds provided, and make outstanding remittances promptly); and
g. not seek payment under section 35(2) of the National Defence Act in respect of anything provided at no expense to the member.
Pusser
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 32
- Points
- 530
Lumber said:
I would agree that the paragraph is poorly worded. Unfortunately, the replacement of CFAOs with DAODs and other policy documents (e.g. the CFTDI) has NOT improved clarity or efficiency in the interpretation and efficiency of policy. I rely upon common sense and past practice when dealing with much of this. But what will happen when folks like me (i.e. those who remember when the world made sense) are all gone? Thankfully, Claims-X calculates it automatically, so it must be right!
