High Speed Train Coming?-split from boosting Canada’s military spending"

[Cloud Cover]

Hate em all you want. But they do a ton of military stuff too. And that's cause we don't have a ton of large infrastructure developers in the country. And in this particular case they came as a package deal with CDPQ (Quebec pension fund) who is doing the financing and SNCF (French National rail company) who will do a lot of the planning. Here's the part that will really you surprise most. Air Canada is part of the consortium.

https://www.cadence.info/en

I don’t hate them. I live not far from Kicking Horse Pass and they built a beautiful 4 lane bridge that is attached horizontally to the mountain side. That’s no easy feat of structural engineering although it takes the fun out of the near death experience of the old highway and its 4000 foot drop to the river bed. (Now we need a new location for a “train station” John Dutton style.)

 

[lenaitch]

That track was suitable for a Dayliner and not much more. North of Peterborough it is a mix of hard rock Shield and cedar swamps.

The current condition of the active infrastructure speaks more to maintenance than alignment.

It's actually an east-west route, particularly east of Peterborough, but that's ok. According to 'railway folks', when the original proposal was 'high frequency' vs 'high speed', most of the alignment was suitable for decent average speeds. The stretch between (ish) Kaladar and Perth were problematic because of the alignment through the Frontenac Arch (southern extension of the Shield).

Best speeds on the current CN lakeshore corridor can be in the range of 160 kmh.. The big problem is not speed, it's conflict with freight traffic. Once you get into 'high-speed', in the vicinity of 300kph, you get into a track classification that doesn't exist in NA. Curvatures become huge and things like at-grade crossings, cutting through towns, etc. simply can't exist.

With the high speed component, only a small portion of new ROW was felt to be needed around Sharbot Lake and a new connector at Smiths Falls.

I mis-typed. I meant to say 'without' the high speed component.

Getting through Montreal, either via the north or south shore, is seen to be a problem but I don't know enough about that area.

 

[QV]

Have you stopped to think how much it would add to the economy, the economic impact of getting from Toronto to Montreal in an hour?

Will it top the trillion dollar deal Trump just inked for energy?

 

[daftandbarmy]

I don’t hate them. I live not far from Kicking Horse Pass and they built a beautiful 4 lane bridge that is attached horizontally to the mountain side. That’s no easy feat of structural engineering although it takes the fun out of the near death experience of the old highway and its 4000 foot drop to the river bed. (Now we need a new location for a “train station” John Dutton style.)

That is some bridge...

 

[MilEME09]

Will it top the trillion dollar deal Trump just inked for energy?

If you think a 30B train will be more than a 1 trillion energy deal (which I doubt will even fully happen) I have an igloo in Florida to sell you

Economic Impacts of High-Speed Rail: A Review

ADAM COHEN Adam Cohen is an MTI Research Associate and a researcher at the Transportation Sustainability Research Center at the University of California, Berkeley. Since joining the group in 2004, his research has focused on innovative mobility, including shared mobility, smart cities...

transweb.sjsu.edu

 

[QV]

If you think a 30B train will be more than a 1 trillion energy deal (which I doubt will even fully happen) I have an igloo in Florida to sell you

Economic Impacts of High-Speed Rail: A Review

ADAM COHEN Adam Cohen is an MTI Research Associate and a researcher at the Transportation Sustainability Research Center at the University of California, Berkeley. Since joining the group in 2004, his research has focused on innovative mobility, including shared mobility, smart cities...

transweb.sjsu.edu

I'm certainly no expert, but it seems to me that exporting our resources to the extent possible will pay more dividends than making it easier for people to travel between a few cities. In fact I think energy export would pay for that rail line and then some thus improving economic impact by an order of magnitude by capitalizing on both. I doubt it happens the other way around.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I'm certainly no expert, but it seems to me that exporting our resources to the extent possible will pay more dividends than making it easier for people to travel between a few cities. In fact I think energy export would pay for that rail line and then some thus improving economic impact by an order of magnitude by capitalizing on both. I doubt it happens the other way around.

Ah but you forget. The Windsor -> Montreal area is vote rich. Money is well spent there if one wishes to govern.

 

[Czech_pivo]

The current condition of the active infrastructure speaks more to maintenance than alignment.

It's actually an east-west route, particularly east of Peterborough, but that's ok. According to 'railway folks', when the original proposal was 'high frequency' vs 'high speed', most of the alignment was suitable for decent average speeds. The stretch between (ish) Kaladar and Perth were problematic because of the alignment through the Frontenac Arch (southern extension of the Shield).

Best speeds on the current CN lakeshore corridor can be in the range of 160 kmh.. The big problem is not speed, it's conflict with freight traffic. Once you get into 'high-speed', in the vicinity of 300kph, you get into a track classification that doesn't exist in NA. Curvatures become huge and things like at-grade crossings, cutting through towns, etc. simply can't exist.


I mis-typed. I meant to say 'without' the high speed component.

Getting through Montreal, either via the north or south shore, is seen to be a problem but I don't know enough about that area.

I'm just happy that the proposed rail corridor is no where near Tyendinaga. No need for yet another infrastructure facility to be held ransom.

 

[MilEME09]

Ah but you forget. The Windsor -> Montreal area is vote rich. Money is well spent there if one wishes to govern.

its also a corridor with some of the worst traffic congestion in the country

 

[suffolkowner]

That sounds familiar!

1,000 km/h Edmonton-Calgary pod commute is the latest twist of an exploration that's been happening for ages

The high-speed pod would be whisked along by 'electrically-driven magnetic propulsion' inside a tube suspended on pillars, reducing the commute to a comfortable ha…

nationalpost.com

Edmonton-Calgary HSR should happen too

I'm certainly no expert, but it seems to me that exporting our resources to the extent possible will pay more dividends than making it easier for people to travel between a few cities. In fact I think energy export would pay for that rail line and then some thus improving economic impact by an order of magnitude by capitalizing on both. I doubt it happens the other way around.

I doubt it, but why not both

 

[MilEME09]

Edmonton-Calgary HSR should happen too

I doubt it, but why not both

Smith's giant AB rail plan seems to have gone silent, the Passenger train from Calgary to Banff has gone dark as well. We could really use it, my company I know would save a lot of money if I could take a train to edmonton, heck can we do HSR to Saskatoon so i am not paying 600+ one way for a flight?

 

[RangerRay]

I am a fan of HSR having travelled on it in Germany and France (SNCF is fantastic). Having said that, this article points to many flaws in this particular plan. I’m not super knowledgeable, but his arguments seem sound. But maybe he’s out to lunch…?

Canada Shouldn’t Build High-Speed Rail

It is still the time in this fair land for that railroad not to run

www.changinglanesnewsletter.com

 

[Halifax Tar]

Whose jurisdiction is traffic congestion ?

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Whose jurisdiction is traffic congestion ?

All levels of government, depending on where and what mode of transport alleviates it.

 

[YZT580]

It's 4-5 years design. Then 8-10 years of construction. At the supposed build of $60-90B that's about $9B/yr for construction. Less than 2% of federal revenue per year. Time to cut some federal pogey and redirect it to projects that actually will have a serious economic impact and legitimately improve the quality of life of a ton of people. Even if you never ride this thing, the economy benefits from half the population not having to rely on crowded airports (Pearson now has some of the worst on time performance on the continent) or clogged highways (401 congestion costs the economy billions every year). Just imagine what the crowding and congestion and economic impacts would be in 2040 (when this is supposed to finish).

If you're having trouble understanding the impact of congestion, let me put it in terms you'll get: it's like a pipeline for people.

I call bull. A TGV trainset holds roughly 600 passengers. That is the equivalent of at a guess 5 minutes worth of traffic one way on the 401 near Pickering during the evening when it is quiet. Put two trainsets together for max. capacity. Now tell me what congestion have you alleviated. HSR will definitely cut down on flight frequency. It could even eliminate flights in the corridor that are an hour or less now as has happened in Europe. The TGV from Brussels to Paris for example stopped most intercity flights and that is a good thing but unless you are going to run them every 10 minutes or so they will not ever relieve traffic congestion in the corridor. As well, there are very few residents between PQ and OW until you get within 45 minute of the capital which means that people travelling between Toronto and Prescott at least will either have to stay with conventional trains or as they do now, drive their cars. Your ridership is therefore limited to commuters from PQ (and how many of them will be able to squeeze into 2 or 3 trains an hour at most) and the folks who are currently flying so no, you will not improve the quality of life for a ton of people.

 

[ytz]

I'm certainly no expert, but it seems to me that exporting our resources to the extent possible will pay more dividends than making it easier for people to travel between a few cities. In fact I think energy export would pay for that rail line and then some thus improving economic impact by an order of magnitude by capitalizing on both. I doubt it happens the other way around.

I'm not sure why you think this is an either/or proposition? More than one thing can be built at a time.

Edmonton-Calgary HSR should happen too

I doubt it, but why not both

Edmonton-Calgary is the ideal distance for HSR. The problem there is a lack of population. We're talking about two sprawling metros of 1.5M each. That's not enough demand to pay for something like that. Ideally, they'd build some kind of train line and then do the expensive parts, like grade separation and electrification over time as population grows.

If you want to understand how transport planners estimate level of demand for things like this, a basic concept is the gravity model. Rough idea, multiply the populations of two catchments together and divide by square of the distance between them. This is done for every station combination on the line and added up. The basic idea is that the closer two cities are, the more likely people between them are to interact. And of course the more people, the more the interactions.

I am a fan of HSR having travelled on it in Germany and France (SNCF is fantastic).

SNCF is literally the lead rail developer in the winning consortium of this project.

 

[Rifleman62]

Next headline, Quebec says no more rail lines, unless......

 

[Kirkhill]

The current condition of the active infrastructure speaks more to maintenance than alignment.

It's actually an east-west route, particularly east of Peterborough, but that's ok. According to 'railway folks', when the original proposal was 'high frequency' vs 'high speed', most of the alignment was suitable for decent average speeds. The stretch between (ish) Kaladar and Perth were problematic because of the alignment through the Frontenac Arch (southern extension of the Shield).

Best speeds on the current CN lakeshore corridor can be in the range of 160 kmh.. The big problem is not speed, it's conflict with freight traffic. Once you get into 'high-speed', in the vicinity of 300kph, you get into a track classification that doesn't exist in NA. Curvatures become huge and things like at-grade crossings, cutting through towns, etc. simply can't exist.


I mis-typed. I meant to say 'without' the high speed component.

Getting through Montreal, either via the north or south shore, is seen to be a problem but I don't know enough about that area.

As I recall that line basically paralleled Highway 7 between Peterborough and Ottawa.

 

[YZT580]

As I recall that line basically paralleled Highway 7 between Peterborough and Ottawa.

on the south side where all the villages are up to Perth. Then it followed Cavanaugh Rd. through Stittsville and after that, don't know. There is one bridge left near Ashton but it doesn't cross anything anymore. Getting through them would be a very expensive proposition. I don't think that they can use level crossings with high speed so there would have to be a graded crossing about every 15 km or so along the entire route

 

[Kirkhill]

on the south side where all the villages are up to Perth. Then it followed Cavanaugh Rd. through Stittsville and after that, don't know. There is one bridge left near Ashton but it doesn't cross anything anymore. Getting through them would be a very expensive proposition. I don't think that they can use level crossings with high speed so there would have to be a graded crossing about every 15 km or so along the entire route

Requiring locals to make 15 km detours to find a crossing?