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Helicopter/Cyclone discussion (split from HMCS Fredricton thread)

  • Thread starter Thread starter Baz
  • Start date Start date
Sorry; SMG = Standard Manoeuvre Guide; a publication that covers a host of procedures, practices, restrictions, etc related to a specific fleet. Also known as a SMM (Standard Manoevre Manual). The LRP SMM is 200+ pages...and covered by CTAT/Controlled Goods policies.

They will also contain warnings, cautions, notes, as well as "should/shall/may/will/must" statements.
 
Eye In The Sky said:
Sorry; SMG = Standard Manoeuvre Guide; a publication that covers a host of procedures, practices, restrictions, etc related to a specific fleet. Also known as a SMM (Standard Manoevre Manual). The LRP SMM is 200+ pages...and covered by CTAT/Controlled Goods policies.

They will also contain warnings, cautions, notes, as well as "should/shall/may/will/must" statements.
Click to expand...
We can't even get the damn names of two documents sync'd up.

SMG = SMM.

Facepalm GIF by MOODMAN
 
dimsum said:
We can't even get the damn names of two documents sync'd up.

SMG = SMM.

Facepalm GIF by MOODMAN
Click to expand...
It is now.

The Cyclone has an SMM. The Sea King had an SMG. There was no point in doing document name change in the Sea King Twilight years.
 
SeaKingTacco said:
The RCAF won’t do Helo ASM unless and until the RCN makes it a high priority.

Even then, it ain’t as simple to mod the helo as your friend made it out to be.
Click to expand...
We were talking about a Hellfire upgrade, which I don't think is covered under ASM mounting as it's a much smaller missle system. But yah not a simple upgrade I'm sure. It was nice to be excited about new kit for a change though I'll tell you.
 
June 254th at 1pm will be the service for Slt Matthew Pike, in Truro NS.

A notice on FB mentions a Three-volley salute will be conducted in Bible Hill NS between 11am to 11:15am, also on June 25th.
 
US courts, US law, and DND and CAF are explicitly excluded. That said, from what I can see the nature of the claims is such that DND/CAF will be brought in.
 
Probably not, but do they want a Boeing MCAS situation? I'm willing to bet they settle long before disclosure starts. Even if they lose the suit, there's likely skeletons they don't want released.
 
PuckChaser said:
Probably not, but do they want a Boeing MCAS situation? I'm willing to bet they settle long before disclosure starts. Even if they lose the suit, there's likely skeletons they don't want released.
Click to expand...

US courts and lawsuits can go in many directions.

If Lookheed has anything that points to them....they may settle.

It be won't be a MCAS situation. No one else flies the thing.
Especially US forces....so no news stories. It's not even the same as the base S92.

EDIT: Crap I forget things....the damn Marine 1....if something.in the machine can be linked to that new program....Lockheed...settle...just ask how many zeros.

OT...RCAF...could get a new source of cheap spares again from a presidential helicopter program. Lol..
 
Spencer100 said:
US courts and lawsuits can go in many directions.

If Lookheed has anything that points to them....they may settle.

It be won't be a MCAS situation. No one else flies the thing.
Especially US forces....so no news stories. It's not even the same as the base S92.

EDIT: Crap I forget things....the damn Marine 1....if something.in the machine can be linked to that new program....Lockheed...settle...just ask how many zeros.

OT...RCAF...could get a new source of cheap spares again from a presidential helicopter program. Lol..
Click to expand...
The US Presidential Helicopter and the Cyclone are only externally similar. Not the same helicopter.
 
SeaKingTacco said:
The US Presidential Helicopter and the Cyclone are only externally similar. Not the same helicopter.
Click to expand...

Sorry for the OT...but I thought it does use the FBW system developed for the cyclone....at Canadian expense...

On second thought they probably didn't use it...so they could charge the US for a new system development. They are going to be a billion a piece when finished. And not pay Canada the royalties.
 
dapaterson said:
Same lawyer previously successfully sued Sikorsky over the S92 crash off Newfoundland. S92 is the civilian model that evolved into the Cyclone.

globalnews.ca

Families of military members killed in 2020 Cyclone helicopter crash sue manufacturer | Globalnews.ca

Lawyers representing the families say a design flaw caused the chopper to fall into the Ionian Sea off the coast of Greece. They also say the manufacturer is yet to fix the issue.
globalnews.ca globalnews.ca
Click to expand...
There are some stories that report Sik informed the RCAF of the potential issue, and that RCAF ignored/refused the fix. I’m not knowledgeable enough to know what’s credible or not in that regard, but it if true the blame game changes significantly.


The other issue is at the end of the day, the RCAF conducted testing and gave it an airworthiness cert
There is a big difference between a commercial helicopter purchase and a military helicopter that was adopted as to the what/why/where of blame when things go badly.
 
Expanding some on the layers aspect SKT mentioned, might be a good time re-cage some info:

army.ca

Helicopter/Cyclone discussion (split from HMCS Fredricton thread)

Basically to give the enemy a larger target selection to discern from, possibly a decoy TG similar to Chaff "Invasion fleet" of WWII and the IAF attacks on Berka Valley. if the enemy has 50 missile to launch from a given set of coastline, then you don't want them to see just 30 targets.
army.ca army.ca

and…

army.ca

Helicopter/Cyclone discussion (split from HMCS Fredricton thread)

Basically to give the enemy a larger target selection to discern from, possibly a decoy TG similar to Chaff "Invasion fleet" of WWII and the IAF attacks on Berka Valley. if the enemy has 50 missile to launch from a given set of coastline, then you don't want them to see just 30 targets.
army.ca army.ca

I think the “not in the SMG/SMM” aspect is going to factor in significantly. Just my opinion.
 
KevinB said:
There are some stories that report Sik informed the RCAF of the potential issue, and that RCAF ignored/refused the fix. I’m not knowledgeable enough to know what’s credible or not in that regard, but it if true the blame game changes significantly.


The other issue is at the end of the day, the RCAF conducted testing and gave it an airworthiness cert
There is a big difference between a commercial helicopter purchase and a military helicopter that was adopted as to the what/why/where of blame when things go badly.
Click to expand...
Keep in mind that this is not the RCAF/ GoC sueing SIK- it is the families.
 
SeaKingTacco said:
Keep in mind that this is not the RCAF/ GoC sueing SIK- it is the families.
Click to expand...
Understood, but Sik’s argument to me would be the RCAF/GoC is the actual culpable party, as by issuing an airworthiness certificate they have indemnified the manufacturer.
 
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