Grammar and Sentence Structures

[the 48th regulator]

But the only time I ever use proper English is in formal places, internet forums being strictly informal by definition so I never ever bother with grammar and spelling except this site.

Good on you, keep it up.

dileas

tess

 

[Edward Campbell]

...

The entirety of the internet with very few exceptions is informal. When you’re in an informal place there are no rules and nothing really makes any difference ...

Fair enough, I suppose, but you are not in an informal place.  You are in Army.ca, M. Bobbitt, Proprietor.  Mr. Bobbitt asks that all guests (some of whom are members, some even paying members) try to express themselves in a manner which reflects well upon the site.  His Directing Staff encourages the same by discouraging "web speak".

It seems to me that when we are guests in Mike Bobbitt's place we owe him the elementary courtesy of writing as he asks.  As you have demonstrated, it’s not difficult.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Quote,
PS. I never used spell check

Nor the "grammer check"
..............well I guess "our definition" of an internet forum is different than your quote,"internet forums being strictly informal by definition"......and, quite simply, our house our rules.


EDIT: Ah, Edward, still way faster than I.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Thank you Edward, you just saved me the trouble.

munky99999,

Those are the site rules, please reread them if you require a refresher. It is not really open for debate.

 

[George Wallace]

I might add, that we are trying to maintain this as a "Professional Site" for those interested in the Canadian Military; the Army in particular.  As such we expect to keep our 'informal conversations and discusions' professional in nature.  We strive to have Topics of interest for all Ranks of the CF and those interested in garnering information on the CF, as well as those interested in joining the CF.  If the rules for this Private Site are not in your opinion what the Internet should be, there are many other sites out there that are.  Be forewarned, most military sites that strive to be 'professional', also demand that their posters be professional and literate in their presentations.

 

[Journeyman]

This is how I see it. The best way to communicate is fast and effectively. It has nothing to do with intelligence.

You have SO made my day.  :rofl:  But if I may add to the others' observations of just how mistaken you are......

The entirety of the internet with very few exceptions is informal. When you’re in an informal place there are no rules and nothing really makes any difference........what possible consequences can an anonymous uncreditable person create? None

Ahhh...but you see, there are rules here... Please check the site's Guildlines - - no really, I insist, please: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937.0.html 

And if you have been following the Ruxted Editorials and the ensuing discussions, (http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/board,68.0.html), you may begin to have a clue as to just how much what is posted within this site does make a difference. This site is read by a very diverse audience - - some quite highly placed in government, and some in very significant positions to inform public opinion regarding the Candian Forces. I personally believe that having government support and positive public opinion for our military is a good thing. Some readers may lack either the sophistication to know truth from trolling, or simply not have time to confirm facts. What you say may therefore be taken as truth, when in fact you may be completely out to lunch.

To say that an argument isn’t valid or credible because of spelling and grammar or by the person in any way is an ad hominem. You are ignoring the facts of the argument and attacking the person or the person’s grammar and spelling. Which most likely isn’t the subject of the argument to begin with

Well, first off, on this thread (see title at the top), the topic is grammar and spelling, so please try and bear with those attempting to show you the light. Making the effort to form a logical, well-organized and presented posting speaks volumes about the poster's credibility. Yes, that old saying is true: "you never get a second chance to make a first impression." Now, you started out by telling everyone you believe that the best communication is fast, effective, and has nothing to do with intelligence. If one cannot even present a facade of intellect, why should anyone read further? A dog that can juggle may be amusing, but I certainly cannot believe its opinions on defence procurement will give me any particular insights.

Quite simply, in your observation that this site has has very little "1337-speak" - - anyone wishing to be taken seriously here must therefore put some effort into communicating within the arcs of the guidelines. You've shown the capability, despite believing yourself above "spell check" use; you need only be willing to put the effort into "fitting in"  (I know..... ~shudder~)

Much like poetry, there are no rules in poetry.....

Oh, and you got THAT wrong too. See BBC, "Get Writing," Poetry Techniques: http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/getwriting/module22p

 

[munky99999]

I wasn’t debating this site’s rules. I was explaining what is going on with this web speak movement.(in a sense it is a movement) though perhaps making the guideline more clear couldn’t hurt.

It is true that the internet is considered informal. The necessity of the rule proves this.

If one cannot even present a facade of intellect, why should anyone read further?

Again as I quoted in my first post of Thirstyson’s it is for the most part a choice to not use “proper” English; as much as it is a relative term also. Today’s English presented to someone in Shakespeare’s time would be completely unacceptable and definitely not proper. Since it’s a choice to use web speak rather then proper English. As I’m demonstrating that I’m fully capable of following the grammar rules that have been taught to me, but for the most part on other sites choose to use web speak. It doesn’t change the meaning of what I’m articulating thusly basing your argument that what I am saying is wrong because I’m not spelling to your satisfaction isn’t valid.

You've shown the capability, despite believing yourself above "spell check" use; you need only be willing to put the effort into "fitting in"  (I know..... ~shudder~)

I’m not above spell check. I’m just showing that IF I put the effort in I can be as proper as most, or at least satisfactorily proper.

Oh, and you got THAT wrong too. See BBC, "Get Writing," Poetry Techniques:

Yes techniques are different then rules. The saying goes as I remember. “What's the first rule of writing poetry? There are no rules. Poetry rules!”
You have all the right to use bad grammar, spell wrong, write some words upside down, or invent words that make no sense at all. Eh doblbeeblyblob.

Only thing that makes me sad is I can remember this stuff and can’t remember 100 digits of Pi  :crybaby:

 

[Michael OLeary]

I wasn’t debating this site’s rules. I was explaining what is going on with this web speak movement.(in a sense it is a movement) though perhaps making the guideline more clear couldn’t hurt.

It is true that the internet is considered informal. The necessity of the rule proves this.
Again as I quoted in my first post of Thirstyson’s it is for the most part a choice to not use “proper” English; as much as it is a relative term also. Today’s English presented to someone in Shakespeare’s time would be completely unacceptable and definitely not proper. Since it’s a choice to use web speak rather then proper English. As I’m demonstrating that I’m fully capable of following the grammar rules that have been taught to me, but for the most part on other sites choose to use web speak. It doesn’t change the meaning of what I’m articulating thusly basing your argument that what I am saying is wrong because I’m not spelling to your satisfaction isn’t valid.

So, what exactly is your point?  We know that we have rules that are different from much, but not all, of the internet.  Those rules are readily available and all members agreed to them on joining army.ca.  They are also reinforced by staff and other members in the interest of maintaining a credible level of presentation in the discussions on army.ca.  Participating here includes doing one's best to meet the site's published Guidelines, or at the very least a demonstrable attempt to do so, and an awareness that the Warning System may apply to those who refuse to "conform."  If you are capable of using proper (current era) English, in the scholastic sense if that is your preference for defining it, then please do so.  The many variations of language emerging in the public sphere on the street or through the net are not our concern, a level of language skills appropriate to the CF workplace and similarly formal environments is the expectation.

 

[Thaern]

Munky99999, take it from me, a veteran flamie from this topic, they will not stop.  Just say that you are sorry and move on.  Any argument you try and make with them, no matter how reasonable, will go unnoticed amidst the flames (trust me whatever you're about to say, I’ve said it and was wholeheartedly flamed for it).  At this point most people don’t care about what you have to say, but rather that you said something.  Take the advice I received from the padre and just move along.

 

[Mike Bobbitt]

And now, just for fun, swap "us" and "them" in your above post and see how it's still applicable.

 

[TMM]

Again as I quoted in my first post of Thirstyson’s it is for the most part a choice to not use “proper” English; as much as it is a relative term also.

It is also my choice as an employer to fire someone, as I have done today, for not using "proper" English. The danger I see with so many students now is that they, like you get so used to MSN/leet that when the time comes to use it, they literally can't do it.

You better pay attention to how you communicate because it will come back to bite you in the arse.

 

[Scott]

Munky99999, take it from me, a veteran flamie from this topic, they will not stop.  Just say that you are sorry and move on.  Any argument you try and make with them, no matter how reasonable, will go unnoticed amidst the flames (trust me whatever you're about to say, I’ve said it and was wholeheartedly flamed for it).  At this point most people don’t care about what you have to say, but rather that you said something.  Take the advice I received from the padre and just move along.

First post since April 30 and you just had to come back here, eh? Beat the horse just a teensy bit more :

Flamed? Not once were you flamed, you were informed of the way things were run here then you argued and trolled until you got yourself warned. After your warning you went off half cocked and accused the Staff of abusing their powers!

You then did an about face and seemed to accept why things were happening as they were and I thought that this was going to die - not so, here you are again bleating.

You have a choice, just the same as I, if you don't like the site or it's rules then do not come here. I don't go to leetspeak.com and b*tch about how I can't understand anything and I wouldn't expect anything but a high five if I were so bold and arrogant to do so.

Are you done now?

 

[Centurian1985]

XXXXX, take it from (them), a veteran flamie from this topic, (we) will not stop.  Just say that (they) are sorry and move on.  Any argument (they) try and make with (us), no matter how reasonable, will go unnoticed amidst the flames (trust (them) whatever (we)'re about to say, (they)’ve said it and was wholeheartedly flamed for it).  At this point most people don’t care about what (they) have to say, but rather that (they) said something.  Take the advice (they) received from the padre and just move along.

Mike - A few grammatical errors (ah yes, a pun!) but works. 

Thaern -  Overall, while I promote individuality and personal expression, in this case I suspect you either have some form of masochism or just enjoy baiting people. Maybe both.

Munky99999 - Stay away from the darkside!

 

[Thaern]

Not flamed eh?

Someone needs to tell me how to quote more than one person (right now i just hit the quote button on the post i wish to quote from)

"This is clearly the sort of errant pedantry, up with which we shall not put!" -Journeyman
"See , that is where you went wrong, you had a thought and followed it by another one.  For the love of god....stop thinking !!"-aesop081
"Thaern, not only are you out of your lane, your travelling the wrong direction on a multi-lane freeway."-sdimock
"Could that be the final shot of this engagement, please?  The barbarians have withdrawn from the frontier voluntarily, stand down, guardians...."-Kat Stevens

And these are just some the good ones, there are about half a dozen or more that i didnt bother copying, the point is try reading the thread before adding your $0.02 usd ($20.21 Cnd)

 

[George Wallace]

Thaern.

Walk Away. 


Just Walk Away.

 

[Trinity]

Take the advice I received from the padre and just move along.

cough... cough...

No good will come of this, right or wrong...

My advice...  listen to George.  Walk away, let it go.  Pick and choose the battles.

 

[Mike Bobbitt]

Here's an extreme case, but it certainly highlights the importance of being diligent in your work:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060806.wr-rogers07/BNStory/Business/home

 

[Shamrock]

Here's one from one of my college grammar classes:

          A woman without her man is nothing.

I think improperly punctuating this sentence can be potentially more worrisome than a mere $2 million.

 

[pronto]

I remember the famous "comma that saved a life"... Some Tsar wrote the death sentence of a prisoner: "Pardon impossible, to be sent to Siberia." His wife (Tsarina) figured the guy was innocent, and saved his life by transposing the comma. The sentence then read: "Pardon, impossible to be sent to Siberia."

See? Grammar counts.

>

 

[George Wallace]

Indeed it does.  It is all a matter of Punctuation: 




Dear John:

I want a man who knows what love is all about. You are generous, kind, thoughtful. People who are not like you admit to being useless and inferior. You have ruined me for other men. I yearn for you. I have no feelings whatsoever when we're apart. I can be forever happy--will you let me be yours?
Jane




Dear John:

I want a man who knows what love is. All about you are generous, kind, thoughtful people, who are not like you. Admit to being useless and inferior. You have ruined me. For other men, I yearn. For you, I have no feelings whatsoever. When we're apart, I can be forever happy.
Will you let me be?
Yours,
Jane