Grammar and Sentence Structures

[Scott]

Well, I'm glad Mike stopped in and said his piece, I don't have to tell you to take it up with him if you feel I am being unfair, he's posted his thoughts. To mine:

Wow, simply wow, put on the warning system for nothing more than simply posting in leet/msn speak.  Which, by the way, took me more that 5 minutes to actually write since I'm really not that good at doing it.

Army.ca Conduct Guidelines

You will not become an administrative burden to the Staff by intentionally or unintentionally creating significant work for them through your actions.

You will not troll the boards or feed the trolls. This is making posts that intentionally create hostile arguments, or responding to such posts in the same hostile tone.

You will not use excessive webspeak, or other shorthand styles of typing. Please use English or French to the best of your ability; this makes it easier for those who are not posting in their native language.

Users that ignore these rules or otherwise act inappropriately may be placed on warning or banned.

You broke the guidelines, more than once, on purpose and flaunted it. You deserved the warning, you were asking for it, nuff said.

I mean if it was something truly offensive (yes i know you could consider that truly offensive but i mean vulgar) then sure a warning would be a good idea.  But seriously some of you guys are taking things way to far.

No, you are the one who took things too far.

I honestly cant believe that some of you thought that post was meant to be taken as anything but jest.

Maybe if you had have taken the advice given in the first place and not acted the way that you did it would have been taken in jest. Considering your previous posts I saw it as a flagrant attempt to troll and apparently so did some others.

Alright from now all all attempts at humor orlightheartedness's (i think thats all one word!?)  are over, its clear that the best way to communicate with people on this forum is in straight, dry, unemotional, text.

We don't have a problem with humour, we have a problem with people breaking rules which you went out of your way to do on more than one occasion.

P.S. Lighten up Scott, you can hate me, but don't go abusing your admin because of it.  Find a real, not personal, reason to ban me.

I am being light, I don't hate you, I am not abusing my privileges as DS. Considering the attempts people made to turn you around I probably could have started you higher up the ladder in the Warning System but chose not to. You are not banned, you are on verbal warning, you can not edit your posts for one week. After the week is up, if you behave, you will go back to the status you had before the warning. But, if you choose to continue down the path we have travelled so far you will progress in the system and eventually be banned. It's really up to you.

Now, are we done here?

 

[monika]

  Lastly, and a point that has been made a number of times on the forums, effective written communications is an asset, and a requirement for promotion by service members.  For this reason, if not for any based on actually desiring effective online interaction, new posters should be aware of and accept that good writing standards are a desirable skill, one which they can actually use the Forums to practice and improve.

Nicely stated Captain. Forget about effective written communication being required for service members, it is a requirement in any career. I say that not merely because I was a journalism student and plan to go into broadcasting; I say it because every day, I see the language butchered by people who either don't care or are careless. In some cases I have actually had to reply and ask for clarification! I don't care what one does for a living; if the email you send me is sloppy and careless I will assume that is how you treat all your professional activities and yes, I will be less likely to deal with you in the future.

Think about it.

 

[Sig_Des]

Where do we get these guys?

Man, I thought we boarded up that hole in the fence?

As a communicator in the military, I'll say it now...There is a time for use of short-hand and abbreviation. But even when you fall under that time, you want to make sure that your messages are clear, legible, and will still be understandable to the recipient. Nothing worse than sending a message or worse, orders, and having the recipient take the wrong meaning.

Now, this forum? It doesn't fall under the short-hand time. There's no stop-clock from when you click on "reply" to when you click on "post" (and hopefully, you're clicking on "Spell Check" before you click on "Post"). You have the time to look over. You can use military abbreviations (most of us understand them, or have access to the Military abbreviations guide), but for the love of all that is right and decent, why not show everyone the courtesy of at least attempting to make your post understandable. I'm not saying you have to be the most eloquent poster here, but I don't feel I should have to be a cryptologist to understand you.

Also, there's a difference between jesting about people or subjects, and out to be a smart-***. You, Thaern, are exhibiting traits of the latter, specifically with your attempts to inflame and provoke members who are not only quite senior and respected on this site, but several whose years in the military outnumber your age.

I'm not saying don't use humour...ask any of the regulars on the chats and forum about myself, I find humour to be a great tool. But same as anything, there's a time to use it. I would suggest to not do so in a patronizing way to speak with other members.

Just a friendly suggestion. It'll save you grief.

In short; Your aim is off. Check your scope. Readjust to a comfortable firing position. Go on.

 

[Kat Stevens]

If humour was a no-go around here, my post count would be hovering around the 12-15 mark, I would think. >

 

[Thaern]

Woah woah, OK i was out of line for that admin abuse comment.  I thought he was just doing it for the use of leet/msn.  And as for trolling alrighty then, if you think i am then perhaps that's a sign to stop posting in this topic and better yet, to take this advice from these people who are obviously more mature than me (not trying to be patronizing).  Sorry 'bout that mix up Scott I'm off to find bigger and better topics to get flammed on. (its a joke, I'm not off to go harass other topics). 

P.S. Hope to see y'all round.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Could that be the final shot of this engagement, please?  The barbarians have withdrawn from the frontier voluntarily, stand down, guardians.... ;D

 

[aesop081]

Could that be the final shot of this engagement, please?  The barbarians have withdrawn from the frontier voluntarily, stand down, guardians.... ;D

yeah, time for another lock

 

[Trinity]

There's no stop-clock from when you click on "reply" to when you click on "post" (and hopefully, you're clicking on "Spell Check" before you click on "Post"). You have the time to look over.

No.. but on really hot threads (such a this one)

If you even remotely take your time next thing you know three
other people have posted ahead of you and already stolen your
thunder or the thread has been locked.

That sucks.

 

[pronto]

Wow, I've been off starting up a new job for the past while, and have not had a chance to "check in" as it were. I cannot believe how my little thread has grown... you all do me proud! 9 pages of debate on grammar. I have just completed reading it, in its entirety. From the sublime to the ridiculous, and back to the sublime again.

Cheers all,

 

[Sig_Des]

At what point did it get sublime again  ???

 

[pronto]

heh heh, that would be your post!

 

[Trinity]

heh heh, that would be your post!

Well.. no thread can be complete until HitorMiss comes in and stinks up the place

I wonder what took him so long in finding this one???

 

[DJ]

yeah, time for another lock

 

Please don't.  I think that this is still a pertinent topic, minus the hiccup.

 

[HItorMiss]

Padre I got a lot of threads to look over.....so many people...so little thought into what they say!

As for Grammar in general Heck I barely speak English what with the grunts and mumbles, plus it hard to hear me over the sounds of my knuckles dragging on the ground.

However I do indeed find it deplorable the state in which I find many post for even the most mundane thread, and thus take great care to use my grey matter for something other then bullet catching and tactics (so hard to stop thinking tactics), I find that when I am doubt I take the time to use other means of spell check and grammar checks before submitting a post on here or in the case of my professional career submitting memo's (thanks to Journeyman on that too, you Officers sure are edimucated ).

As for posting inflammatory stuff...of lord how you picked the wrong thread to do anything other then just read, when you got a thread full of senior members of this site and it's admin staff, plus the owner reading you do not lip off to them even in jest. I'll put it to you this way, can I crack jokes with my Platoon commander, yup sure can to an extant anyway, do I walk into a conference room full of command staff and crack jokes about them being pointy heads...Oh lord no, not if I want to continue my life in the fashion and manner for which I have become accustomed to.. IE: Breathing.

so in closing, everybody sucks but me

PS: OK my grammar sucked in this post I'm sure, blame our poorly funded public education system that focuses more on participation then in actual teaching now days.

 

[Strike]

So, after all of that, I have a nice little story for you.

As many of you know.  In the Petawawa area we get a free newspaper every Friday.  It has all of the weekly flyers and is generally one big advert.

One of the ads in this paper was for a car dealership.  It was selling (get ready for this) not only Sonatas and Echos, but Escape's and Cavalier's as well.

The OCD in me kicked in and I called the paper to inform them about their error.  Obviously they don't believe grammar is important in advertising because the guy treated me like a nut.  Okay, I know I am a bit of one for going this far, but I was going into convulsions every time I looked at the add.

 

[DJ]

I fully understand.  I as well suffer from OCD in related matters.  I know that in my work the slightest errors create unwanted attention.  Being on the look-out for any errors that I make has developed into a state in which my radar is always on while reading everything.  I swear that I should have been born with a red pen in lieu of a finger.  I, for one, would also rather be told about a mistake rather than continue making it.  It's similar to bootlaces.  One could have their entire uniform absolutely perfect but bootlaces which are sticking-out will negate everything else and make one look shoddy.

 

[Sig_Des]

so in closing, everybody sucks but me

Well, that does indeed give me some direction in my life! I was so wrong...All I had to do was be more like HoM...lemme give it a try!

hmm, my knuckles don't reach the ground...maybe if I.... OH! I need to stoop...there we go...

This is kinda uncomfortable...what if I...I KNOW!! I'll breathe through my mouth!

Now, how could I be anymore like HoM? I've got it! I'll put on Oakley's!

Now I just need to hit a radio a couple of times and say "Talk into magic box...sky rain fire!"

8)

 

[big bad john]

I wonder is Thaern realises that many members of this site are current serving members...and this is a small military....I'm not saying anything either way...

But Thaern, take that thought and run with it for a bit. First impressions my friend....first impressions. Whether it is in person or on a website frequented by CF members.

You'd be surprised how quickly people could figure out who you were, and how word can get around that you gave some the impression of being a mouthy smart-arse.

Just thought I'd place that thought out there. 

Subtle hints...

 

[Arctic Acorn]

PS: OK my grammar sucked in this post I'm sure, blame our poorly funded public education system that focuses more on participation then in actual teaching now days.

I dunno dude...I sat right beside you in high school (well, for the classes you deigned to attend, at any rate...) and I turned out gud.

'Me fail english...thats unpossible!'

 

[munky99999]

This is how I see it. The best way to communicate is fast and effectively. It has nothing to do with intelligence. It has everything to do with “Is it formal or informal?” and “Who is going to be reading this and/or does it matter?”

The entirety of the internet with very few exceptions is informal. When you’re in an informal place there are no rules and nothing really makes any difference. Much like poetry, there are no rules in poetry because there are absolutely no consequences to poetry. Compare this to a report from a Brigadier general to whoever he would be writing to. If he didn’t use proper and concise English there probably will be misunderstandings occurring; which can create a lot of trouble. However what possible consequences can an anonymous uncreditable person create? None

Now for an informal medium; the only question left would be. “Who is going to be reading this and/or does it matter?” Take this site for example. The people reading my post will probably understand completely what I am saying even in “web speak” or they will be ESL and will only understand proper English and have no idea what I’m talking about. Which leaves the part, “Do I care if they understand me?” You can probably guess the answer to that easily enough.

Can any of you tell me if teachers are accepting acronyms and abbreviations in schools? Do they teach grammar and spelling?

Definitely not. While I had this one teacher for most of my English, he never ever taught much but when it came down to anything opposite of formal/proper English it was wrong. I do know however that we were supposed to learn grammar and spelling.

Thirstyson says it best.

Keep in mind that these are all examples of personal communications, where spelling, grammar, punctuation etc. take a back seat to efficiency.

Most people who write like this can write just fine when needed (they all passed high school writing the same essays as you did). There just isn't any incentive to write properly most of the time and many dont see it as bad form posting to a forum in this manner. I'd argue that army.ca has the LEAST amount of 1337 speak of any forum I know.

I know proper English and most rules that I should know about at my level of education. I’m not even allowed to use the word “whom” according to my post-grade 12 teacher because I don’t know the rules surrounding it. But the only time I ever use proper English is in formal places, internet forums being strictly informal by definition so I never ever bother with grammar and spelling except this site. When I read the rules to the site I thought that it mean very bad ghetto talk, “fo reel dawg me thot tis wez the worse.”

Now again, I may be showing my age here, but an argument consisting of netspeak is going to generally be less credible to me than one in "longhand." I probably shouldn't carry that bias, but to me if the point's worth making, it's worth the time to write it out legibly and professionally.

I would have to say that is a bias and a very large opening for an ad hominem. Arguments get their credibility from the argument’s facts and evidence. To say that an argument isn’t valid or credible because of spelling and grammar or by the person in any way is an ad hominem. You are ignoring the facts of the argument and attacking the person or the person’s grammar and spelling. Which most likely isn’t the subject of the argument to begin with, personally I debate often on religion so spelling isn’t the subject. When the person attacking my spelling and grammar it means he can’t argue against my facts and evidence.

PS. I never used spell check.