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General Vance - Inappropriate conduct?

FJAG

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Is he in fact, Mr Vance? No leave to burn off? No paperwork to clean up? Also, does the NDA not also allow for charging of someone already released?
Yes it does if the offence was committed while serving. There is a limitation period of 6 months for the very minor offences but no limitation for all the others.
 

ballz

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The allegations against the former CDS obviously don't compare to the scale of Russell Williams heinous acts, but they still have the very real ability to shake institutional confidence, both internally and externally.

The harm to institutional confidence looks like it may have already been done by those who could have addressed it and didn't, if what's been coming out today about these issues having been raised numerous times before and not addressed proves to be true. Internally, it will confirm to soldiers that those at the higher ranks are never held accountable and never held to the same standard as they are. At this point, if the allegations do prove legit, the opportunity to be credible may have come and gone.

Externally, maybe there is some way to salvage some credibility still available, i.e. how the investigation is handled, how they go about prosecuting, etc.... maybe the public will forget that this is only happening in the light of receiving bad press and not because of integrity, but the troops won't.
 
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lenaitch

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I don't really see a superior officer issue because the military court is independent of the chain of command (when the CoC isn't making up dumb administrative policies which backhandedly defeat that) and the fact that the individual under investigation is now an ex-CDS.
Isn't that question currently before the SCOC?
 

FJAG

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Isn't that question currently before the SCOC?
I was in the legal branch from 1984 to 2009. We were always before the CMAC or the SCC on that issue. It's the first plea in bar of trial that they teach at the Director of Defence Counsel Services U. :D I never let it worry me anymore until the decision comes down so that the legislative drafting branch can take another kick at the cat to make the next one bullet proof.

🍻
 

Jarnhamar

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The harm to institutional confidence looks like it may have already been done by those who could have addressed it and didn't, if what's been coming out today about these issues having been raised numerous times before and not addressed proves to be true. Internally, it will confirm to soldiers that those at the higher ranks are never held accountable and never held to the same standard as they are. At this point, if the allegations do prove legit, the opportunity to be credible may have come and gone.

Externally, maybe there is some way to salvage some credibility still available, i.e. how the investigation is handled, how they go about prosecuting, etc.... maybe the public will forget that this is only happening in the light of receiving bad press and not because of integrity, but the troops won't.

We can just force soldiers to do a DLN course on reporting harassment which is due by EOP the next day so we can give thumbs up all around. Good work defense team.
 

FSTO

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Rory Fowler has had some rather pointed observations about those issues... and some very, very sloppy administrative law work.

Thanks for the link. By reading just a few of his posts, our leadership seems to have no clue how to implement policy or directives with any concrete legal footing. If a person was bloody minded and rich enough, they could bring the whole house of cards tumbling down by just challenging the legality of many directives within the CAF.
 

FJAG

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Thanks for the link. By reading just a few of his posts, our leadership seems to have no clue how to implement policy or directives with any concrete legal footing. If a person was bloody minded and rich enough, they could bring the whole house of cards tumbling down by just challenging the legality of many directives within the CAF.
Legislative changes work slowly at the best of times.

This hasn't been the best of times.

🍻
 

The Bread Guy

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Next step ....
The Canadian Forces National Investigation Service (CFNIS) is opening a probe into the allegations of inappropriate behaviour against former chief of defence staff Gen. Jonathan Vance. Global News can also confirm the female subordinate who says she had an intimate relationship with Vance while he was chief of defence staff had asked to meet with military police earlier in the day. “We can confirm the CFNIS is investigating this matter,” said a spokesperson for the military. “In order to preserve the integrity of the investigative process, no additional information can be provided at this time.” ...
 

Good2Golf

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So MND told PCO, but PCO didn’t think the MND’s information was sufficient to take action...did PCO advise MND it needed more information? Was MND told yet chose to not provide any additional information?
 

daftandbarmy

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Yuup. I guess the fact that he was married at time of his relationship with the US LCol wasn't a factor, and that his wife at the time was the "other woman" from his first marriage. SMFH
Its A Trap What GIF by Adult Swim
 

OldSolduer

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This keeps getting curiouser and curiouser. SO you are all telling me that Operation Honour, which I took seriously, was in reality a great big game of pretend?

We counselled soldiers that this sort of behavior - especially where there was a huge discrepancy in rank - was improper. Was I mistaken??

We had one of those CO's vignettes where the Sgt was taking advantage of a recruit. Everyone in the room thought it was a clear cut case of harassment until they found out it was a woman doing the harassing. Then the jokes started - and I stepped in. My question was " what if that private was your daughter or wife and the harasser was male?"

Mic drop. Dead silence.
Rant ends.
 

Haggis

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During my Operation HONOUR cascade training, I became quite upset when two majors could not see that one of the scenarios put forward for discussion was clearly describing not only inappropriate sexualized conduct but the criminal offence of assault.
 

The Bread Guy

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... SO you are all telling me that Operation Honour, which I took seriously, was in reality a great big game of pretend? ...
Implementation issues aside, trying to make sure troops are jerked about less than in the past is rarely a bad thing, even if implemented & driven by someone who .... well ... allegedly had his own case studies in the making. It also sounds like you took away the right lessons, so there's that ....
 
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